<|-- removed generator --> The Online Photographer: And Here's What I Think the Pentax Film Project Ought to Be

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Monday, 18 December 2023

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Sounds good! However, if you had looked at the teaser videos, you would learn that they plan to start with a fixed lens camera. It will have a lever film advance. That’s most of what they say. A compact camera, but likely not too compact. They said designing the film advance turned out to be complicated. They don’t rule out an SLR later though.

pretty good specifications there. my pricing would be - usd 2500 for body, 2800 with a 43mm f/1.9 kit. another 100-150 usd for a black edition and colours released as special editions for the collectors

So what about lenses? I'm sure Pentax will want to sell some lenses for the camera. Pentax, thanks to their somewhat obsolete lens lineup, still has about a half a dozen lenses with aperture rings left from film days. But the camera may need a dial to allow control of aperture on lenses without aperture rings. Perhaps they will come out with some new "Limited" lenses specifically for the new film camera.

But that is all for the future since the initial film camera will be a fixed lens compact, perhaps something like the old GR.

What a nice memory it is to advance the film with that lovely lever on the Spotmatic. What was moreso nice about that was that advancing the film was part of the process of taking a photo. I only advanced the film when I had decided to shoot. Motor drive cameras like my wife's old Rebel were always positioned at the next frame, goading me on to shoot. As if it was in charge.

That auto-exposure procedure you describe, the way it worked on the Super Program I think, well that's how the creator intended it to work. Everything else is an abomination. I still reach for the non-existent aperture ring on my m4/3s lenses.

Just weep at the thought of how many people today have not felt the tactile pleasure of advancing film mechanically, turning an aperture ring, or feeling the shifter engage the next gear in a well-designed manual transmission.

Silly nostalgia maybe, but how many people smile at the thought of spinning control dials with their thumbs or index fingers. What pleasure centre does that excite.

I can't find it now, but I seem to remember that Pentax aimed to produce two SLRs, one being a Manual Mechanical Marvel, the other more electronics based. I presume many parts would be common to both models.

So the marvel might be as you described, though perhaps just with manual exposure. The electronics version (with a few more whizz-bangs) could then offer compatibility with all recent and current lenses, in line with Pentax's long standing belief in not orphaning lens mounts.

Then lenses without aperture rings could be used, as could lenses designed only to cover the APS-C format, with a frame line or lines within the viewfinder.

New users would get an 'in" to the DSLR system, while current Pentaxians (I'm one) could use all their current lenses straight away.

The Whizz-bang would then be part of the Pentax system, instead of being like an odd cousin the family didn't see very often. That's not to put down the Marvel, which would satisfy the folk who want to do everything by hand with a piece of fine machinery.

Better to have two models, than one that's just a compromise.

Looking at that photo I had managed to forget that they were labelled Honeywell. The ones we got here in Canada were always branded Asahi so far as I know.

Maybe the new Pentax can shoot the 32mm by 24mm format, too.

I'm also hoping that they reissue some of their best manual prime lenses. I recently bought (yet again) a Pentax 35 F2 M, to use with an adapter on my Z7 and Z6. It's a delight to focus, even better than my much more modern Voigtlander 35. The edges are a little softer, but who cares.

Foolproof film loading: my first slr was a (second hand) Canon FT-b QL, where QL stood for Quick Load.
Worked always fine for me! Later Canon models didn't have this feature; not so foolproof after all or a matter of cost cutting?

My fear is a K1000, a Frankenstein of a camera! That said, if you’re going to use film, you don’t need it to be easy. So no Super A or autofocus. My preference would be a rebooted MX, why not? OK, a 100% mechanical camera might be a bit pricy, and the full information viewfinder won’t come cheap. So an ME, with a full manual mode? Oh, and a partial meter pattern, the AV on the MX ruined so many of my Kodachromes!

Yes for the focus confirmation light only, good groundglass for manual focussing, classic ring lugs and a threaded shutter release.

I agree completely with autoexposure and metering. Classic Pentax hyperprogram.

I think you should have a flash terminals. Hot shoe would probably be preferred by younger people. After all, the camera should be usable for family gatherings.

Yes, keep that beautiful self-timer lever!

Keep the lens release separate from the self-timer lever. It's already on the lens mount on the modern models. No need to make a different spot for it.

Spot metering button -- great, but don't jam it on the top of the camera. Does it have to be on the right side of the camera? Maybe on the front of the camera, near the lens mount, not in the way of holding the camera. Perhaps a switch on the lens mount to choose metering?

Lenses - special manual lenses with damping like the pre-autofocus lenses.

As I read your description of what the camera should be I realized it wasn't too different from my still-working (but fully retired) Nikon FM. I used that camera for ~25 years. It even worked without batteries if you knew how to judge exposures.

So a Spotmatic with similar characteristics could be a winner.

Please take out the automatic exposure modes. Anyone who can manually focus can also manually set exposure. Also take out the spot metering function. You do not need it. I've exposed thousands of rolls of Kodachrome (remember Kodachrome?) with very few bad exposures using nothing more than center-weighted metering, and sometimes just my eyeball and a good sense of the light. Any electronics should be made of parts that can be readily sourced into the long distant future. Electronics fail.

I'll take a digital version!

Update: According to the latest installment of Barfout magazine's coverage of the project (dated today, December 19), there is a prototype of the compact camera, and it's described as "very thin" and "light"(at least in Japanese-to-English translation).

https://barfout.jp/feature/6133/

No photo, yet.

Based on this description and previous statements by designer Suzuki, I gather that the prime concerns were that the camera be easy and inviting to carry every day and that it have a mechanical film advance.

"Light" sounds unfortunately like "plastic" to me, but then "plastic" doesn't have to mean "cheap". Another clue is that Suzuki brought out a Ricoh half-frame camera at the unveiling. So, sounds to me like the prototype is something in the mold of 80's compacts, with a lever wind.

A feature post claimed that Contax and Yashica film P & S cameras are for "young" photographers. Maybe so, but this "old" photographer just had a book published shot almost entirely on an old Contax T2. And, coincidentally, the only other rolls of film I shot for the book were with a Pentax MZ-S.

https://www.immaterialbooks.com/store/p/grift

I’ve started saving for it just in case you are right!

You are way too 'purist' for me. At 79 I am an old dawg B&W guy and when I want to shoot 35mm film I already have the camera I want. It's a Canon EOS Elan7 and it is one of the film cameras I won't part with, that and my cherry Wista 4x5.

Those classic, clean Spotmatic lines still attract- even the self timer is on another level!

Rest assured it will be nothing like you or anyone else dreams, but it would be nice if it is a quality object with enough 'ris' to create some waves!
Still not a fan of the recent Nikon digital/analog conglomerations...

"Perhaps even help launch a proud Pentax brand, with regalia and merch and swag..."

So anyway, until recently, I had an essentially flawless wooden counter in my kitchen, a slab of wood 9'3" long, 35" wide, 3" thick. Black. Not shiny, but with a certain sheen to it. Then, I think because I bought a Pentax Monochrome, Pentax sent me, without warning, a gift: a pentaprism. Just exactly that: a piece of glass that would fit in an SLR viewfinder It came nicely packaged in a gift box. Setting the box on the once-flawless countertop, I lifted the pentaprism out, and tried to squint through it out to the yard. I then fumbled it, and the extremely sharp-edged pentaprism dropped onto the previously flawless counter top, and gouged out y-shaped cut. Not large, but easily seen against the sheen, and essentially irreparable. My wife, sitting across the counter, said, "What did you do?" She grabbed the pentaprism, and cut her previously flawless hand. The pentaprism now resides in the Santa fe land fill.

I wish they'd sent me a tee-shirt.

[You should have had it cast in lucite. Arthur Kramer, lens guru of the old Modern Photography magazine, had an Apo-El-Nikkor 105mm enlarging lens cast in lucite, which he used as a paperweight on his desk. (There's one for sale on eBay right now...not in lucite...for $8,500.) But it's possible the pentaprism would have disappeared in the lucite, I don't know. Even if it did it would have made a good conversation piece for other photographers..."can you guess what essential part of a camera is in here?" --Mike]

Surely there must thousands (or millions) of perfectly useable film SLRs out there that film enthusiasts could pick up at a fraction of the price of a brand new one?

"A new 35mm film SLR must be designed to be *iconic*."
I would have said *ironic*. Typo? ;)

My first SLR was a Pentax Spotmatic. I bought it at a PX in Naples, Italy in 1965. I used that camera for years until I switched to an Olympus OM-2N for my 35mm, about 1980. Good cameras, fond memories.

I’ll echo at least part of what Ken says. No need to care about Pentax; Leica already does it the right way. Funny how often that happens here, whether about film cameras, monochrome cameras, simple control interfaces, fantastic viewfinders, etc. Sometimes it’s better just to spend the money (or save buying used), buy once, and save the search and angst.

I find it funny- after many have added what they would like to see built into a new film Pentax - it will not be thin or light.

Me? If I ever do have the urge to shoot 35mm film again (which I probably won't) I can dust off my 1969 Nikon F with the plain pentaprism finder.

Not thin or light but built like it will last for generations (its on its way to doing just that)

Basic, jewel-like old camera: Olympus OM1 or OM3, for sure!

Unfortunately because of multiple eye surgeries my eyes aren’t what they used to. I’d want all the auto things that you don’t want.

First, remember we are discussing fashion here. Film fashion. So leave logic at the door.

So many ways Pentax could go. And so many paths fraught with danger.

I'd say safest path is to remake the K1000. Keep the K-Mount. Add diopter correction, extend the eye relief, and brighten the prism. Upgrade the meter to some silicon cell, and use a common-as-dirt battery.

Then stop. Just stop. To attempt to do anything "better" is to risk disaster. Automation would be disaster. Autofocus? No way. Built-in-grip? Ehhhh, maybe. But maybe not.

Here I think I am conceptually correct, even if my numbers are off. Bring the price in around $300 with a 50mm lens. A price too high will not sell enough to even cover the costs, I feel. The film thing is fashion. People like fashion, but will only pay so much to get it.

(Like the idea of a Pentax Spotmatic with a K Mount, but that is too much to hope for. And if built to a lower standard than the original Spotmatic, would be a disappointment.)

As the photo of the Honeywell Spotmatic shows, self-timer was a standard feature in that era of SLRs. It was used to let you take long exposures without a cable release (and, after all, the cable release can pull or push on the camera during the exposure). But I suppose for a toy camera, it's not really necessary.

And as for your proposal to include auto and programmed exposure, feh! That will entirely alienate the market for such a camera. Those are useful features, but do not fit a retro toy.

Though your proposed user interface is better than anything anybody has done, simple and obvious.

(As for spot metering, I moved from Nikon to Olympus because of the multi-spot metering in the OM-4. My verdict, after the fact, was that it was a fool's errand. It didn't improve my slide exposure much at all; I had hoped to achieve 75% of the exposure side of Zone System without slowing down my shooting very much, but the improvement just wasn't there. On the bright side I suppose it means I was better at working out exposures than I thought. These days, in digital, doesn't matter.)

Overall, Pentax will offer us maximum lens compatibility rather than broad capabilities from new lenses. Considering Pentax's recent one-new-lens-a-year product cycles, I don't expect their SLR to land with a splash like the Olympus OM System, which launched with a dozen new lenses, as I recall.

"Obsolete" or not, Pentax still takes pride in its Limited lenses. They're shown in most of the promo videos they past. The DFA 31 and 77 are natural full-frame companions for a Pentax SLR. If you had to be limited to two primes, these Limited lenses fill the bill. They're small, fast and have manual aperture rings that are usable with current Pentax DSLRs. Coating have recently been improved over the older FAs, and they've been given circular apertures. The bokeh is excellent, and their resolution meets common standards of film.

These two focal lengths are an ideal place to start, but where's a film Pentaxian to look next? All the new lenses of this century, I believe, have used electronic apertures, with no lens ring. Most are large. I doubt they'll make the cut.

Pentax does have late-film-era lens designs from its FA series. Two midrange 2x zooms are still respectable, the 24-50 and the 35-75. The FA 35/2.0 and 50/2.0 have been updated and remain in production. Or Pentax might go farther into the past and revamp some lenses from the manual focus days. I wouldn't be surprised if they're labeled as Takumars....

One of the reasons I moved from Pentax to Nikon many years ago was I really liked an old Nikkormat I borrowed from a relative for a week. I suggest it's precisely the heft of the old Leicas which encourages their owners to shoot with them. Yes, toting them around gets old, but the substantial feel to the heavy, high-end cameras from decades ago makes a person feel like they're accomplishing something while using a purposeful device made just for the task. I simply need to pick up my FM in comparison to my Nikkormats to feel the difference the weight makes to the experience of shooting with the newer, lighter, more compact Nikon. In every objective manner, the FM is a better camera, but it feels like I'm investing less muscle in the process of getting the photo I want.

Making a new Pentax film camera heavier just to make it feel more substantial wouldn't fly today. It's nice though to think that spending good money on a new Pentax would get you a camera which feels as if it's been milled from a solid block of metal and will work flawlessly for several decades.

My favourite Pentax, and the one I used the most and for the longest was the LX. Just the right size and heft, ergonomic perfection, and combined with their best screen (S69?) the best viewfinder I used in 35mm.

Metering off the film was excellent, not having to rely on batteries was a great comfort when in the field, and never gave me a problem. Just superb!

The Pentax MX was also a fine camera, but its metering would need to be improved, as would the brightness of the viewfinder. However, I suspect a full manual camera of that quality built now would put it in the Olympus OM3 ti, FM3a, or Leica M6 price range. The LX, even higher.

The A setting plus manual controls will work well enough for shutter, but what about aperture? It is all fine and good for Fuji to make a new suite of lenses from whole cloth with an A setting. But will Ricoh for Pentax?

How will it work with old mechanically linked lenses? The camera would be pointless without legacy lens support, after all. You'd still need a way to tell the camera to use the mechanical linkage to set aperture on the lens. Do you have an AA setting next to A on the A setting for shutter?

Also, one thing about the haptics of having A next to the manual settings. There ought to be a lock, preferably mechanical. At least, it should take a greater amount of force. The times I've shot Fuji, I managed to bump the setting from A enough times that I learned never to trust it. And no, F/16 or B exposure is not what I meant. Mostly I bumped it on the lens, and so my response to that was to crank aperture completely the other way, and just live with annoyingly narrow field of view.

A new 35 mm SLR should be at least a 645.

I think John v is on the right track. Quality automatic compact, but non-motorized, seems to be what Pentax is going for. But easy for beginners and not so premium--perhaps more in the Olympus Stylus Epic ballpark. If it turns out to be a Ricoh Half Auto reissue, but with full frame and a good lens, with auto or two-zone focus, it might do pretty well.

If I ran the world:

If the tooling for the spotmatic wind lever is still around, it was my favorite wind lever of all. Tactile qualities are a big part of why film cameras are engaging, they just feel good to use. Digital cameras have no feel at all.
To use an automotive analogy, I think the film Pentax should probably be very similar emotionally to the Mazda Miata, which is all about haptics and engagement.

If I ran the world part two:
An actual focusing screen with microprism and split image focusing aids and enough texture to actually be usable with manual focusing should go without saying, but I’m here to say it anyway.

Late comment but while I have no real interest personally in buying the new Pentax film camera and wish them well, I _really_ have bad GAS for a used Nikon S3 2000 & a Nikkor 35/2.5 to go with it. I already have a nice set of longer lenses (and a nice FSU 35/2.8 Jupiter 12 but it's no Nikkor).

I enjoy shooting film through my S2 with those lenses and the using my D810 to digitize the results.

Yo-ho-ho, it's the hybrid life for me 😈

No need to reinvent the wheel. Pentax could just put back into production the LX and the K1000.

When thinking about a Pentax film camera and lenses everyone mentions the Limited series that are amazing, but there are a number of older FA lenses that are very good and you can get them used for a song. After purchasing my APSc Pentax, I only purchased FA prime lenses in the hope that there would be a full-frame Pentax. That day arrived with the K-1 and I had a set of excellent FF lenses. The older FA zoom lenses are not as sharp and not good for pixel-peeping.

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