Reacting to the "Ode to Old Lenses" post below, I got this comment:
John Bour [lightly edited]: "OK, sorry Mike, only a few sentences in, and this triggered me to react (will read the undoubtedly interesting rest of your post after getting this off my chest). What is it with you Americans that you feel compelled to replace a word like s--t with 'stuff' or sh*t? We are adults; no kids read this blog, and if they do their souls will not be spoiled by reading s--t (or 'the f-word, the n-word [see below —Ed.] etc). Grow up (not you personally, but the US as a nation). So much s--tty stuff going on in your country and the world in general, but oy oy...we can not expose our adult readership to s--t like s--t. We and our kids can consume a s--tload of violence on TV, porn on the web....
"Who are you trying to protect with this prudishness, and from what? Any bigot who is offended by seeing the word s--t instead of sh*t is not worth protecting!
"S--t, sorry, I got carried away. Longtime follower of your blog, daily visitor. European, so that might explain my irritation. Keep up the good work! Back to reading your post. ;-) John."
Mike replies: Sorry back, but it amused me to edit the sh*t out of your complaint. Literally. No offense! :-)
Our no profanity proscription is because, at least in early days, it was rumored that institutions such as schools had filters in place to disallow sites with profanity from being accessed. I never even knew for sure if that was true, but it made sense, so I opted to err on the side of caution. Besides, if one almost never uses profanity, it increases the impact when one does. But in general, I'm not a fan. The overuse of profanity is "the inarticulate mind attempting to express itself forcefully."
I've been a big believer in politeness from early on. My father had a pushbutton rant against politeness; he would say, bitterly, "politeness is so fake," and elaborate accordingly. I guess he considered it an authenticity issue: "People should say what they really think," and "politeness is just a bunch of lies," and so forth. I was maybe 13 when I first engaged with that argument: my position was, of course it's fake. That's its purpose. If everyone went around saying what they really think all the time, we'd create a whole society with a sludgey, sticky coating of slouching, snarling insult all over everything. We'd all go about the world in little bubbles of self-aggrandizing narcissism, dismissing and degrading others. And being battered willy-nilly by the slings and arrows of others, as they ran roughshod over our own feelings in return. Human beings are self-centered and prejudiced by nature. Politeness is the custom of keeping social order by encouraging people not to give vent to the foul spewing dyspepsia in their hearts all the time and at every turn. It's not just useful. It's essential.
Avoiding profanity is classic "middlebrow" politeness behavior. See Chapter 5, "Middlebrow Culture from Noon to Twilight," in Susan Jacoby's The Age of American Unreason in a Culture of Lies.
Mary, on a Summer's day
Two little data points. My father was notably misogynistic, and had a special animus toward women who he thought talked too much, because his mother, my paternal grandmother, had that characteristic, or so he said. My same-age cousin Chris and I both have loyal and loving memories of Gran, and neither of us remember that. But then, we were six when she died. And we probably listened. According to my father, when Gran would call, he would set the receiver down and go do something else, and she would talk on without him. My mother said that wasn't true, but if it wasn't, my father liked to say it was.
Anyway, when my father took a governmental position and we moved to Washington D.C. in the 1970s, we had a very friendly neighbor across the street named Mary. I wouldn't say Mary was pathological about it (it's called logorrhea in its extreme form), but she, too, could sparkle with streams of rapid skittering talk when she wanted to. She was light and kind, with a breeziness that covered an underlayment of anxiousness and emotional fragility. Another delightful but maybe somewhat ditzy thing about Mary was that she and her husband had been posted in Britain for seven years, and she had come home with a permanent British accent. She just liked it. My father, who I'm sure only socialized with these neighbors under duress, had some pent-up opinions about this that we heard about once or twice at home. He thought she was "putting on airs" as the descendants of hillbillies would put it. My father put on airs himself, but with French. He would use certain French words as replacements for the English ones even though he had never made much headway in his long-term quest to learn to speak French.
One fine Summer's day Mary came across the street to tell us she had accepted a package for us or some such, some little neighborly thing, and she ended up exchanging words with my father, who spoke down to her through an upstairs window. The conversation somehow turned that way, so he took the occasion to unload on her everything on his mind where she was concerned. He told her she talked too g*ddamn much, that nobody liked her on account of it (not true; only true of him), that everybody thought so and said so behind her back (also not true), et cetera. From there it would have been only a short segue to his acidic opinions of her accent, I'm sure. Apparently he calmly went on in this vein for some time, "letting her have it" as he would put it. Well, poor Mary, who had only been being friendly, was so upset at all this that she went home, vomited several times, and then cried for the rest of the afternoon. Finally her husband Jack came home from work and could comfort her. Jack, who was British but had learned an American accent for his job as a supermarket executive, was a courtly, white-haired, well-regulated gentleman, genial and even-tempered to all, but he was livid about this casually cruel treatment of his wife, or as livid as he ever got anyway (though not so angry as to swear I'm sure). It was probably a good thing for neighborhood harmony that when Jack marched over to protest, my father was no longer home, and my mother was able to soothe him.
What had been needed there was a dash of politeness, if you please. A soupçon of consideration for the feelings of others. But no, that would have been "fake."
The hungry shark
The second thing John Bour's comment about sh*t brought to mind is a couple of jokes I heard in Ireland when I was there for the only time in my life. Long story, but when I was about twenty I had to use a plane ticket to Ireland because I couldn't get a refund for it. I liked Ireland so much when I was there it made me think about going there to live; I would dearly love to go there again before I die. I was still drinking at the time, so I spent a lot of time in pubs sucking down dark brown stout. Right off the plane at Shannon I sat next to an Irishman who told me a joke. Seems there was an English ship that went down off the coast of the Republic. The Irish sharks each got their own sailor on whom to feast except one. When the others were consoling him for going hungry, they asked him why he didn't get a sailor for himself. He said he came across one all right, but it was a bare-chested drowned sailor who had a big tattoo across his chest. "The tattoo said 'BRITANNIA RULES THE WAVES,' said the mournful Irish shark, 'and I couldn't very well swallow that sh*t, now, could I?'"
From that, I learned to ask my fellow imbibers in pubs whether they knew any jokes. Of course they all did. I heard some epic Irish jokes on that trip as a result, some of which took twenty minutes to tell, some of which were embroidered and enameled from a great many rehearsals, and some of which I remember to this day. What follows was the one I liked the most. I'll do my best to reproduce it, but the young man who told it to me had told it many times and was nicely practiced, and of course he knew all the proper Irishisms and had the tones of voice down pat. You'll have to excuse my written imitation as pale by comparison.
Seems Paddy came home from work one afternoon to find his wife Bridy in a terrible state. Dirty, clothes ripped and torn, with bruises on her arms and a cold beefsteak pressed against a black eye. This made Paddy fly into a rage. Brandishing his fists, he demanded to know where she had been. "I had a doctor's appointment today with that young doctor down the lane—Tim O'Leary, Conor and Keira O'Leary's boy," she moaned, at which Paddy cried, "He did this to ye, did he, that Tim? Say that and I'll go give him what for! I'll kill him with my hands, I swear I shall!" But Bridy said, "No, no, Tim didn't lay a hand on me he shouldn't have, calm yerself down. He was a perfect gentleman. Don't fly off the handle, Paddy, till you hear my whole story!"
"Tim and them couldn't have been nicer," she continued, "and my checkup went well, but then he wanted me to pee into a little bottle, you know, like they do? Well, I tried, but I could nae, in such a strange place. So I says, may I go home up the hill to my own house, and fill yer wee bottle there, Doctor Tim, where I can be myself? And he says, all right, Bridy, all right.
"So I came home and did as I said. And as I was heading back down the hill, who should I meet comin' up the hill but that Mairead Corrigan. Well, you know how Mairead and I never got on since we was girls together. And she's always so fake-polite to me on account of it. So I quick whips my little bottle behind my back lest she see it and ask what it is. You know how she pries. But I think maybe I was a split too late, and she's seen me done it.
"An' she says, all sly, 'Why, hello Bridy, how do ye do?' And I says, 'Fine, thank ye, Mairead. And how are you?' And she says, 'Quite well, Bridy, and how is Paddy?' And I says, 'he's fine as ever he is.' And she says, prying, 'And where you be getting off to this fine day?' And I says, 'To the doctor, Mairead, young Tim down the lane,' and she pulls back from me and says, 'Yer sick are ye? And talkin' at my face like that!' and I says, 'No, no, it's a well visit, I'm getting my yearly,' and then she comes out with it. She cocks her head at me sidewise, an' she says, all sweet, 'And what's—that—ye—got—behind—yer—back?'
"And I answers her, a bit too fierce, 'Piss in a bottle!' An' she takes a start, cocks her fists and cries, 'Sh*t in yer hat, you old bitch!' An' the fight was on!"
Mike
Original contents copyright 2025 by Michael C. Johnston and/or the bylined author. All Rights Reserved. Links in this post may be to our affiliates; sales through affiliate links may benefit this site. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. (To see all the comments, click on the "Comments" link below or on the title of this post.)
Featured Comments from:
Paul Emberger: "Firstly, I don't mind profane language, myself. I don't think it is always used to insult or be crude. Though I do agree with you, Mike, I prefer a polite society over rude. That said, I need to address this portion of John's comment: 'We are adults; no kids read this blog, and if they do their souls will not be spoiled by reading s--t (or 'the f-word, the n-word etc).' Please don't speak so casually about using the 'n' word. As a Europeaner, perhaps you don't have a full grasp of the history of this word. Personally, having grown up in an inner city, and loved many black people, both friends and romantically, in fact my wife is black, I have a strong, negative personal reaction to it, no matter who uses it. But here in the US, it is entirely inappropriate for a white person, honestly anyone except for a black American, to use that word. I would strongly suggest if you ever visit the United States, you never use it. Also, I would implore you to not use it at home in your own country either. It is an awful word with an awful history, that is only used by some black American people now because they have taken the power out of it. It is their right, and their right alone. Anybody else who uses it, is either ignorant of this or is just ignorant themselves."
John Bour replies (partial comment; see his entire reply in the Comments Section): "I sincerely apologise for mentioning the 'n-word' as an example of silly prudeness. I am fully aware of the connotations, and the offensiveness to the African American community. It is in another league than harmless words (in my humble opinion) like sh*t, or less harmless ones like f*ck, and I agree, its use is never acceptable, other than within that community itself. But...replacing the i with an asterix, in a word that any adult knows, and nobody in his/her right mind should be offended by, is just...silly. Silly, patronising and hypocritical...."
Mike adds: Thanks, John, for providing the fodder for this post! I was having fun with it, and I hope not too much at your expense. I always found it excruciating—currently spelled "cringe-worthy" or shortened to "cringe"—when my genteel mother, who went to a finishing school and never even heard swearing until she was an adult, self-consciously used profanity because she thought it made her sound hip and young. Ugh. That's echoed when The New Yorker spells out the f-bomb for the exact same reason and with the exact same effect on me.
Another aspect we didn't talk about is "the style sheet." Any publication has a list of procedures it uses for consistency. These can be quite extensive—see for example The Chicago Manual of Style, also called CMOS. Examples at TOP: When editing Featured Comments, I preserve British spelling if the commenter uses it, like your "apologise," but change the punctuation markings to align with American typographical customs. Or: This publication uses a punctuation mark called an "ellipsis," which looks like this: ... , and then adds a period if the ellipsis occurs at the end of a sentence, like this.... Some publications allow two or three ellipses one after the other, thus six or nine dots, but I don't. So we only use three dots and four dots and that's it. Featured Commenters are not allowed to get away with things like.....................
I keep it all in my head, but the style sheet for TOP would be many pages long if I wrote it all out. And replacing a vowel with an asterisk in certain words that are offensive to some people is just the way I do it here, that's all. All style-sheet conventions are just decisions made by the editor(s) as to how to handle certain situations so that it's always done the same way. One magazine I worked for did not allow one-word widows. So if that's how the text fell on the page, you'd have to step in and add an extra word or two just to push two words into the widow. I, of course, used to play with this, so one time when I got my galleys back with the instruction to remedy a one-word widow I changed the word "freaky" to "freakazoid," which was long enough to do the trick. The galley came right back with a heavy red line through "freakazoid" and the terse marginal note, "do over"...which was the proper, standardized, conventional marking; God forbid the M.E. should write something in the margin like "STOP F*CKING AROUND!!!!!" Famous style-sheet anomalies in national publications are that The New Yorker, going it all alone, uses quotation marks for book titles instead of italics because founding editor Harold Ross made that fateful mistake in 1925, and The New York Times has a longstanding tradition of grimly and rigidly using honorifics no matter who they're talking about, with the incongruous result that the horrific murdering psychopath Jeffrey Dahmer, say, becomes "Mr. Dahmer" in the paper. Those are silly too, but that's the tyranny of the style sheet.
Alan Whiting: "A quote from Robert Heinlein, The Notebooks of Lazarus Long: 'Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untraveled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these formalitites as "empty," "meaningless," or "dishonest," and scorn to use them. No matter how "pure" their motives, they pour sand into machinery that does not work too well at best.' The Spectator (ca. 1711–12) especially commends politeness between husband and wife. Mike, it seems to me you're in good company."
Sean: "I had an Aunt Bridy myself. I can’t recall ever hearing her swear, but her brother, my father, was a world-class curser, as was my mother. Ireland’s oral tradition helped them craft curses like, 'I hope your hole corrupts and festers.' Looking back, I see it as affiliative cursing. I’m all for affiliative politeness, but other types can be cold—especially in the hands of the passive-aggressive and the condescending. And as Ireland knows too well, the English were masters at keeping up appearances while keeping others down."
George: "School 'profanity filters' were real, or at least they were in the early 2000s. We taught an adult course in basic computing at a Government-run college, and one of the textbook exercises involved looking up the 'superbowl' website. The URL included roman numerals which triggered the blocking filter for 'XXX' e.g. Superbowl XXXIV."
You say two things here (I have taken the end of one paragraph and then elided much of the next, which I am sure is abusing quote rules: sorry)
And this betrays you as an American, making two classic American mistakes.
For the first point: no, this is false, and you would know just how false if you had listened to more creative swearing. Swearing, when done well, is not inarticulate, it is musical: it turns language from prose into poetry. Very fine examples of swearing can be found in much hip hop music, and also in many movies. See '8 mile' for fine examples of both, for instance. Listening to creative swearing is like listening to a fine jazz drummer: there are rather few different sounds, but this does not matter, it is the rhythm that matters, the timing, the expression. Tarantino is another example of someone who has made use of swearing very effectively. See also the start of Four weddings and a funeral for a fine British aristocratic example.
Then you say things about politeness. Those things are correct, but politeness has nothing to do with swearing. Politeness is about being pleasant to other people, about treating them as human beings. And that only has to do with swearing to people who are somehow frightened of swearing for some other reason.
And, well, you are an American, and Americans are, well, f*cked up about politeness and swearing, and so this is something you probably believe. I live in the UK (although I am not a native British person) and here people are different: British people seem to me as an outsider to be more caring about others than Americans seem to be – they are more polite – but they are not f*cked up about swearing in the same way: British people understand that you can be extremely rude to someone without using any swear words, or extremely polite to them while using very many.
There is one example in the comment you quoted which shows, I think, something which is not acceptable. In particular there are many terms which, when used as exonyms (terms used about members of a group by people not members of that group) are extremely offensive: the commenter aludes to one of them. No, that is not a word you, or I, can safely use: to use it would betray us as bigots. But when that word is used as an endonym (a term used about members of a group by a member of that group) it may simply be a term of affection. I belong to a group (a 'race' if you like) which has similar exonym/endonym distinctions: there are words which, if you used them about me, I would probably not ever talk to you again at best, but which I may use freely about my relatives for instance.
[Funny, but you're being really quite prejudiced about Americans. For one thing, does it occur to you when you are lumping us all together that we are deeply divided right now on the elemental question of what it means to be one? Because that's happening. We're not a great monolith who are all exactly the same, marching in lockstep in accordance with stereotypes. --Mike]
Posted by: Zyni | Friday, 11 April 2025 at 12:33 PM
Finding it hard to imagine a circumstance where use of the "n word" would be justifiable here, and indeed in ordinary discourse generally.
This is hateful speech in most instances, not bland or generic profanity. Perhaps Mr. Bour could explain.
Posted by: Howard | Friday, 11 April 2025 at 12:37 PM
No comment, other than that there is a vast difference between using s**t, which might offend, but is not offensive to a set of people, and the n-word, which is offensive to a group of people. I don’t think one should ever use that word, including Europeans fed up with American mores.
Posted by: John | Friday, 11 April 2025 at 01:36 PM
I think the necessity of politeness in our world comes down to the Golden Rule. None of us wants to be cursed or slandered, so it makes sense to refrain from cursing or slandering anyone we interact with. If we display that we can be civilized, then it sets the right tone for the conversation.
If you don't agree with me, F*ck you!
Posted by: Dillan | Friday, 11 April 2025 at 01:38 PM
Sometimes it's useful to speak your mind and other times it's not.
So far as American censorship goes, I've seen artwork on PBS with blurred out sections of human bodies, sometimes even on images of sculptures. Meanwhile, kids are watching hardcore on their tablets. It truly is comical. But I can understand you not wanting to use profanity on a public web site, not gratuitously. It wasn't useful to do so in a newspaper story back in the day, and I see your blog as an analogue of that kind of public communication.
I grew up in Montreal and French language TV stations would show frontal nudity in broadcast films in the 1960s, for females anyway. Even Quebecers could not handle male nudity, it seems. When the USA flipped over shows like Charlie's Angels showing too much T&A, we all laughed. But the funniest was when you all lost your minds because of a bared nipple during a Superbowl halftime show. I read somewhere that the singer in question has almost not worked since. I don't know if that's actually true or not, I don't pay much attention to pop culture. I hope it's not true. It sometimes seems though that American television is one long product placement outlet for guns.
Posted by: Robert Roaldi | Friday, 11 April 2025 at 01:48 PM
Walsh was walking down a street in Dublin when he came upon Murphy, who was wrapped almost head to toe in bandages, some of which were still bloody. Walsh cries, "What happened to you, Murphy? Did you fall off your roof?" And Murphy sez, "Nah, I was at Mrs. Ryan's house, entertaining Mrs. Ryan, when Ryan himself walks in with a f****** big shillelagh, and he beat the sufferin' bejesus out of me." Walsh says, "Well, didn't you have anything in your own hand, Murphy? Murphy says, "Nothin' but Mrs. Ryan's ass, and while it's a beautiful thing in its own right, it's not worth a damn in a fight."
Posted by: John Camp | Friday, 11 April 2025 at 02:52 PM
Short jokes are better - I'm sure you are going to get a few.
"Patrick, what's the quickest road to Dublin?"
"Well, if it was me, I wouldn't be starting from here"
Posted by: Richard Tugwell | Friday, 11 April 2025 at 03:57 PM
I was in the military for over 22 years, and to paraphrase an old Army recruiting ad, "We use the F-word more before 9am than most people do all day." Really, it just rolled off the tongue without thought and caused no adverse reaction from those that heard it.
I was amazed at my ability to self censor when not in that environment. Upon retirement, I took a civilian job in which cursing was not acceptable according to the workplace rule book, and those words never left my mouth without any conscious effort. I don't know if it was politeness or just the sense of right or wrong.
Posted by: Albert Smith | Friday, 11 April 2025 at 04:32 PM
“ If everyone went around saying what they really think all the time, we'd create a whole society with a sludgey, sticky coating of slouching, snarling insult all over everything. We'd all go about the world in little bubbles of self-aggrandizing narcissism, dismissing and degrading others. And being battered willy-nilly by the slings and arrows of others, as they ran roughshod over our own feelings in return.”
Oh - you’ve been on social media then?
Posted by: Jez Cunningham | Friday, 11 April 2025 at 05:30 PM
@John Bour. You might want to learn about the “n-word” and what it means. Racism is not OK in my book and it’s racist. Before lecturing others, a little reading and understanding of other cultures would be welcome. Just a thought.
Posted by: Jean-Pierre Koenig | Friday, 11 April 2025 at 06:52 PM
I have not read your reply, so far just John's comment. my reply;
why do you feel it needs to be course. I think being civilized we do not need to include such words in our writing, with or without * or ---. It IS grownup to not need such language.
Now to read Mikes reply
Posted by: Ken James | Friday, 11 April 2025 at 07:38 PM
Ha Ha
"If everyone went around saying what they really think all the time, we'd create a whole society with a sludgey, sticky coating of slouching, snarling insult all over everything."
I do think we are there
Posted by: Ken James | Friday, 11 April 2025 at 07:40 PM
I'm all for politeness, as my mum would often say "politeness costs nothing" - a worthy sentiment I try to abide by.
That said, as a Brit (and worse, a Scot) the American aversion to swearing does seem peculiar. I often found it amusing in American cop shows where they describe how someone has been raped, murdered, dismembered, and then dumped in an oil drum (or some such grisly end) and the cops moan about some 'bs'. It took me a while to figure out what they were even talking about!
I guess it's just a cultural difference though, and vive la difference.
For the Scottish perspective on 'bad' language, try this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M0w4JojTlB4
Posted by: MikeK | Friday, 11 April 2025 at 07:57 PM
Shortly after reading your post, I came across the following in a post on Substack by Ted Gioia (The Honest Broker):
“The words that signal strength now are increasingly the polite ones—because they are the least expected and most extravagant.
“They are the luxury items of digital discourse, and hence the sources of highest status.”
Perhaps you’re on the leading edge.
Posted by: Peter Conway | Friday, 11 April 2025 at 09:23 PM
I"m the most anti-establishment, to-hell-with-the-norms, don't care what others think, person going.
But I still prefer to see "sh*t" than the word in full. If you love words (and surely most readers of this site must), it would stand to reason that profanity, swearing, call it what you like, is the sign of indolence. Which is fine.
What I struggle with, is swearing in print being considered some kind of virtue, or truth. It's just a lazy way of articulation. Isn't the world dumb enough already without adding to the heap.
Posted by: Kye Wood | Friday, 11 April 2025 at 09:29 PM
My dad sometimes calls me from Thailand and we checkup on how we're doing.
During one of our chats, he ended it with
"Good talking with you sonny, but I gotta go take a sh*t"
I was amused by this, and mentioned it to my sister when she asked if I spoke to him.
A few weeks later, he calls again & we do our chat.
"Your sister told me you told her about me having to go take a sh*t"
"Can't be helped, I found it funny"
"You're wrong today"
"Huh?"
"I'm sh*tting right now."
Posted by: Derek Srisaranard | Saturday, 12 April 2025 at 12:39 AM
Ok, I don’t what the flock’s gotten in to you lately, but your OT posts have been…magnificent. This one took me five minutes to clear my laughing tears….
Posted by: Dave B | Saturday, 12 April 2025 at 05:12 AM
Hej Mike, Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I have now read the rest of your post,and the latest one as well, so here goes:
First of all: I sincerely apologise for mentioning the 'n-word' as an example of silly prudeness. I am fully aware of the connotations, and the offensiveness to the African American community. It is in another league than harmless words (imho) like sh*t, or less harmless ones like f*ck, and I agree, its use is never acceptable, other than within that community itself.
But..replacing the i with an asterix, in a word that any adult knows, and nobody in his/her right mind should be offended by, is just..silly.
Silly, patronising and hypocritical.. And typically a US phenomenon. I know this, having lived in the states for years, following the news intensely (to my chagrin), and mostly consuming US books, blogs, movies etc. Some of the commenters are apparently not aware that the cultural exchange between America and Europe is almost a one-way street. 'We' know much more about your ways than you about 'ours'. Yes, a rude generalisation, but true nevertheless.
Mike, I hope you realised that the use of all the 'forbidden' words was in jest;-) Also, my comments are not specifically aimed at you, but a general observation about USA culture. We are the same age (I'm from '61), and I pride myself on being a very (very!) polite person. I swear, as everybody does, but very seldom in public, and never around children. Politeness and etiquette are ways to show respect to our fellowmen/women. I still open the door for a lady (unless we enter a public space like a bar or cafe..in that case the gentleman goes in first, to avoid the lady being confronted with any potential drunkeness or debauchery. Being my generation I'm sure you know this;-) *
Anywayway, again I apologise for the use if the n-word as an example to make my point. For all else..we have to politely agree to disagree.
Take care, John
* and I chuckle when I see a young couple in a restaurant where he is 'polite' to her and tells her.."no no honey, please YOU taste the wine" ;-)
Posted by: John Bour | Saturday, 12 April 2025 at 08:45 AM
Just the other day the SNL audience shouted the word sh*t live on broadcast TV (East Coast only). Ego Nwodim was doing a call and response bit on the Weekend Update segment and she was pretending to be the host of the White House Correspondents Dinner. While referring to politicians she said, “These men ain’t what?” and held her mike out to the crowd. The audience shouted back, “Sh*t!” You could tell from the casts response that this was not expected or rehearsed…although I’m not sure what they expected the audience to say? I agree with Kye that I don’t like to see profanity in print but its fine on TV or in movies…even when taken to extremes such as in, The Sopranos, Deadwood or most Quentin Tarantino movies.
Posted by: Jim Arthur | Saturday, 12 April 2025 at 12:27 PM
About photography sites and the use of "profanity" or the resumed use of it.
I was making some comment about trivia, and I used the text P*ssed as in "p*ssed off" or some such. I logged on to the site the following day to a long diatribe from a moderator about substituting characters to disguise foul language. He threatened to ban me from the site.
Ironically, at least to me, the moderator was from New Zealand, where if you walk down the street and listen to people talk, you will hear said word quite often in casual conversations.
So it goes.
I also have a t-shirt that says, "I make stuff up". I was at a store and made a comment to someone who said that they liked the shirt. I said that they spelled "stuff" incorrectly, the guy laughed, knowing I meant that stuff should be sh*t, but the clerk said "no, stuff is spelled correctly". SMH
Posted by: pdlanum | Saturday, 12 April 2025 at 04:49 PM
In your story of Mary on a summer's day...it doesn't sounds like politeness from your father would really have made much difference; at least not the form of politeness that seems to be under discussion in this thread, the use of "bad words". In your description of it I spot one instance of blasphemy (though with key letters bleeped), and no other bad language—and yet I feel I understand what your father said well enough, and you seem to feel that you have conveyed it. Do you think that it was the bad language that had Mary in tears for the rest of the afternoon, or the actual content of your father's rant?
Posted by: David Dyer-Bennet | Saturday, 12 April 2025 at 04:55 PM
Well I guess this distracts us from all the real f****** problems in this world
Posted by: Terry Letton | Saturday, 12 April 2025 at 05:32 PM
Weirdly entertaining and enlightening. Love the OT discourse.
Posted by: Bob G. | Saturday, 12 April 2025 at 07:10 PM
I love it when American visitors to Australia are culture shocked by the profanity laced Australian dialect. Bowlderism is symptomatic of the built in hypocrisy of America, presumably stemming from its historical religious foundations. It amuses me that the hypocrisy is so endemic that most Americans don’t even notice it exists. But since I am a profanity laced Australian (and probably worse than most) myself, no doubt that’s just a small thing amusing a small mind.
Posted by: Bear. | Saturday, 12 April 2025 at 10:03 PM
Robert Heinlein said:
"Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untravelled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these formalities as "empty," "meaningless," or "dishonest," and scorn to use them. No matter how "pure" their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best."
I think he had a pithier version in Time Enough for Love, but I found this one first.
Posted by: KeithB | Saturday, 12 April 2025 at 11:42 PM
Hey Mike: Was it actually “sh*t” or “sh*te” that the sh*rk said?
Posted by: Ben | Monday, 14 April 2025 at 09:21 PM
Recent studies show that people who swear generally have higher IQ's.
Posted by: Eric Rose | Tuesday, 15 April 2025 at 05:37 PM