<|-- removed generator --> The Online Photographer: Open Mike: An Alternate Take on the Camera Market

« Courts: AI Images Can't Be Copyrighted | Main | My Thoughts About the New Fujifilm GFX100RF »

Sunday, 23 March 2025

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Cameras were never that big a part of the photography business. The real loser of the digital revolution was Kodak, which saw its multi-billion dollar film business shrink to almost nothing. Though they have just done a massive expansion thanks to the film revival. Fuji has done better, no thanks to their digital business. Their real money maker is Instax.
>>That peak might be deeply misleading, though, because an estimated 92% of that was digicams, or digital point-and-shoots, a category that has withered to almost nothing since the cameras in smartphones got good.<<
Interestingly, smartphones have replaced the low end of the digicam market. The high end is booming! Leica cannot make $6,000 Q3s fast enough to meet demand. The Fuji X100 is famously a unicorn no one can find. And Ricoh's GR III series is in such demand that in Japan you have to win a lottery to get on a waiting list to buy one! Or you did last year; I haven't checked lately.

One of the issues here is that we moved from a time when cameras did not need to be replaced often (get a good film camera, it lasted years) to one where there were constant improvement in digital cameras, to one where digital cameras had become good enough and people were were less tempted to upgrade. Between 2007 and 2016 I cycled through a load of cameras, starting with the Nikon D40 then the D90 and D7100 but also using a variety of p&s including the Sony RX100 and the Fuji X100s. But in 2016 I acquired a Panasonic GX80 and then in 2018 a G9. I still use them both (same M43 lenses but one is smaller and pocketable). What is there to upgrade to that is worth doing so? A G9 Mark 2? I mean, sure, I'd love a Q3 or something or a digital Hasselblad, but there's nothing affordable that's worth a jump.

I am one of those who caused a drop in the sale of 'real' cameras. I am in my eighties and no longer wish to lug even a mirrorless camera about. I had a perfectly good iPhone 11Pro but changed it for an iPhone 16Pro Max purely for the camera(s) which are perfectly adequate for my present needs.

Interesting you mentioned Instax. My daughter has the obligatory smartphone but also has an Instax as a "true" camera.

You may need to factor in the increase in the adult world population from 1975 to 2023, in which case there is a significant relative decrease in digital camera sales and usage. An AI Copilot inquiry reveals the following increase in population relative to stand alone camera purchase-ownership:
1975 world adult population 2.4-2.6 billion
2023 world adult population 5.2 billion

I think traditional cameras (digital and film and maybe some unknown tech eventually) will always be with us (barring the collapse of civilization) because they are focused on one task, and their physical form makes them good at that task. They are fun. The iPhone can also serve as a musical instrument. Quite well, in fact, if you find the right app and take the time to practice. But it's no fun. It's more fun to play a keyboard or piano or guitar.

Purely anecdotal, but I see people replacing smartphones more often than they did digicams. Sure, for a while, new features and more megapixels drove upgrades, but then things stabilized, and people kept using the camera they already owned, only replacing it if it was lost or broken. Smartphones are broken more often, and get replaced more often because repairs have been made so difficult and expensive. Digicam battery won't hold much charge anymore? Buy a new battery. A lot of smartphone owners just replace their phone. Smartphone isn't getting OS updates and you can't run the newer versions of apps, and the older versions have been cut off from working? Buy a new smartphone. Anecdotally, I see the "average consumer" type buying three to four cellphones in the same span of time they would have bought two digicams (early 2000s) or just one digicam (2005+)

Another factor: as much as camera manufacturers tried to push solutions like showing photos on your TV or putting a memory card into a kiosk, the public perception remained that you really needed a computer to make use of a digital camera, and the number of people who didn't own one then, and don't own now, is often surprising to those of us who do. A smartphone doesn't need a computer - it's the replacement for one. Many people who never owned a digicam bought a phone instead.

The higher end of the market may be the same. But before the camera industry benefited from the sales of the cameras that are now in smart phones. So the "traditional" camera industry has fewer resources. Fewer employees, less factory capacity, a smaller marketplace, less cross pollination of ideas (both in camera design and production) etc. A loss of flexibility in allocated resources as markets shift. The one obvious area the industry has benefited from smartphones is processing power. I guess I could add that the industry transitioned from film to digital at the same time it was losing the resources.

I think your take on this is reasonably accurate. I read (but cannot cite, sorry) that 1.1 billion smartphones and 8.9 million digital cameras were sold in 2024. I also read (and cannot cite, sorry but I cannot quickly find the articles) that 92% of cameras in 2023 were in smartphones.

These figures jive with what you're describing: the smartphone has replaced the digicam.

Oh, there's a lot in that post, Mike. A lot to digest and a lot to reply to. But here are my initial thoughts:

a) I'm still convinced that cameras in smartphones were a bit of an afterthought. Have you watched the 'One Device' presentation by Steve Jobs? It's on YouTube, and it's still an amazing presentation. He mentions the camera just once at around 12:35 into it, and he says "On the back, the biggest thing to note is that it's got a 2 megapixel camera built right in", and that's it. Barely 2 seconds of dialogue, and just five seconds looking at the back. In 2007 the camera was definitely not what the iPhone was for. Yet now....

b) I'm disappointed to still be hearing that smartphone cameras aren't "serious cameras". Yes they are, and (in skilled hands) they can produce extraordinary results. As can ILCs, of course; but equally 'of course' both smartphones and ILCs can produce very humdrum and poor results. You won't (in general) produce amazingly better results simply because you're using an ILC rather than a smartphone. (Actually, I accept that there are some styles of photography where an ILC is required, e.g. for true macro or for wildlife/BiF.)

c) I've been looking at the prices of ILCs, and how they've changed over the years. In 1988 I bought a Canon EOS 650, Canon's first AF SLR (I think the 620 was released at the same time.) I paid around £350 for it. Since then prices in the UK have increased about 2.5 times, so a camera in the equivalent position would cost £350x2.5 = £875. Obviously not any kind of accurate figure, but that's a ball park. Let's inflate that a bit to allow for the general depreciation of sterling over the years - let's say somewhere between £1000 and £1200. Looking at Canon's lineup today, all I can say is the only cameras they are selling at those prices are lower-end APS-C models. The R8, Canon's entry-level full-frame mirrorless model, has a list price of around £1600. The R6ii, a solid mid-range camera (which is what the EOS 650 ands its successors were) retails at £2100. Other cameras in their range are way more expensive - the R5 ii is nearly £4500, the R3 is £5000, and the R1 is nearly £7000. Crazy money! - and for most people, not 'hobby' money, either. I'm not familiar enough with other manufacturers' ranges to comment on them, but given that it's a competitive market I assume that Canon's prices are in line with the overall market.

So where does this leave me? Well, with the conclusion that the market for new ILCs is aimed at either professionals who can write these costs off to business expenses (and, in Europe, can reclaim the VAT) or hobbyists with extremely deep pockets. Surely that's a big structural change to the market, even if the numbers are about where they were in the pre-digital era?

It’s been obvious for years that photography itself has flourished, while the traditional camera makers have struggled. Even if we accept that the sales of “serious” ILCs has been stabilized, the CIPA members face an even more serious threat over the next few years: the Chinese manufactures are coming for them. Today it’s largely inexpensive, non-AF prime lenses. But we’re already seeing AF lenses being delivered, and the quality is steadily improving. I expect that zooms will follow shortly and then cameras. They don’t even have to invent a new mount, if they don’t want to, as the L mount consortium is apparently open to new members.

A couple of observations.

TOP is a site concerned with still photography and digital cameras are becoming more “videocentric” as time goes on. That’s not necessarily a problem for the stats in this article if the pre-digital camera figures included movie cameras so we have a like for like comparison, both movie/video and still. If movie cameras aren’t included in the pre-digital camera figures then we’re comparing stills only data pre the ‘90s to video and stills post the ‘90s and I think that makes a difference.

I think there’s also another confounding factor and it concerns why we take photos or engage in any artistic activity. I think we could possibly assume that the proportion of the population interested in pursuing these activities remains constant over time but I don’t think we can assume that the proportion of the population engaged in pursuing a particular artistic activity remains constant over time when technology introduces new fields of artistic endeavour and the tastes and preferences of both those engaged in these activities and those who follow them change over time for lots of reasons.

The number of people engaged in photography changed when George Eastman came up with a technology which made photography available to those who didn’t want to have to do their own “kitchen chemistry”, convenience is a big enabling factor. But people also enjoy challenges and too much convenience is a turn off for a lot of people. Are people who once engaged in photography moving to other forms of artistic engagement because they offer a greater challenge and require more engagement as a result, or even simply because they enjoy playing at the forefront of new technologies and artistic movements?

It’s clear that camera sales increased to a peak in the ’90s and then started declining but there’s only one question being asked here and it’s about why the sales are declining and it’s looking at that question only in relation to changes in the ways in which people can take photographs. I’d suggest that if we want to know why camera sales are declining we may also need to look at why camera sales increased up to the ‘90s. What factors drove that increase and I’d suggest at least some of those factors relate to declines in engagement in other forms of artistic endeavour and that some of them also relate to the ability of a much larger number of people world wide to afford to engage in photography in the last half of the 20th century than in the first half of the century or in the 19th century.

Lots of things drive trends and many of those things are less about the trend we’re looking at than about other trends that result in shifts in our interests and our ability to engage in those interests. Dave Miller attributed the peak to purchases made by people who are early adopters. Early adopters are prone to jumping onto the next bandwagon that comes along and at least some of those early adopters who contributed to the peak may also be contributing to the subsequent decline because they are now pushing a totally different, not camera related, peak in some other activity.

If the purchasing of cameras is any indication of how much serious photography is being done, then this is good news--it suggests that there is a core of serious photographers whose number has not changed much, perhaps increased only marginally, since 1990. That is a good news for photography enthusiasts though not a good one for photography businesses.

To throw another wrench (a small wrench) into the discussion, The Verge reports, "Apple is working on adding cameras to the Apple Watch in order to enable AI features like Visual Intelligence within the next two years, according to Bloomberg’s Mark Gurman ... "

https://www.theverge.com/news/634395/apple-watch-apple-intelligence-cameras

And my car has several cameras.

"Also in 1975, the first digital camera was invented by Steve Sasson at Eastman Kodak in Rochester, New York. It's in the Smithsonian now."
One year ago I came to Washington mainly to visit Smithsonian.
I cannot recall any photo equipment - maybe it's not on display?

[This goes back 30 years, but when I lived in Washington and had a monthly circuit I would make of all the photo exhibits and displays, most of the photo-historical material was in the National Museum of American History. That would be the first place I'd look. --Mike]

Smartphones have greatly contributed to the falling sales of dedicated cameras, but not only for the direct cause that cameras are built into smartphones.

All hobbies are falling out. Audio, coin collecting, philately, motorcycles, ham radio, cars, are fading in large part because some of the prime hobbyists are aging out.

Meanwhile, fewer newcomers are becoming dedicated hobbyists. Because spare time is becoming increasingly eaten up by screens- social media, reddit, continuous feeds, and so on. It's cheaper, quicker, requires less effort than traditional hobbies. (Or even by the (decreasing) number of photo enthusiast blogs and sites!).

This latter is the indirect way in which smartphones- and those who stare at them- has contributed to the descent of Hobby.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Portals




Stats


Blog powered by Typepad
Member since 06/2007