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Friday, 15 November 2024

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To show the crop frame: after cropping, select “crop” again. This will show the full image with the crop outlined. Then take a screen shot of the image portion of LR. Mission accomplished

Well, yes, by your definition photography cannot be abstract because a photograph is always an imprint of concrete light bouncing off concrete matter.

I think what most people mean with the word abstract is that the photograph doesn't look like an easily recognizable thing.

How about this definition?

"Abstract art exists on a continuum, from somewhat realistic representational work, to work that is not based on anything visible from the real world. Even representational work is abstracted to some degree; entirely realistic art is elusive.
Work that does not depict anything from the real world (figures, landscapes, animals, etc.) is called nonrepresentational. Nonrepresentational art may simply depict shapes, colors, lines, etc., but may also express things that are not visible– emotions or feelings for example."

From Libre Texts

Pareidolia
Oh, and you are going to love the national institute of health’s take on this.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9508550/
Apparently a marker for intelligence and creativity.

I always think in 'degrees of abstraction'. Be it by framing, cropping or whatever, we move away from the figurative (to borrow from the recent post concerning painting) or literal representation toward something less obvious. I'd argue that even by using black and white, rather than colour, in a photo, one introduces a degree of abstraction.

I think many people conflate "ambiguous" with "abstract" when it comes to photography. One subtle way in which "Car Wash" is ambiguous is that the material we're looking at is not definitive. It could be water, oil, some kind of plastic or metal...

But if abstract is in the eye of the beholder, there are plenty of abstract photographs. Not for me. The variety of ways photographs can render the normally invisible visible, or unexpected? That doesn't qualify in my mind.

It's easier with film and print, as one can manipulate the emulsion itself in any number of ways and create something genuinely abstract, as in "not an image of the material world". I guess the digital equivalent is manipulating the image file. You can create one from scratch, too, but then that isn't photography, is it? There was no "writing with light".

Some photographs manage to straddle the line, like Sugimoto's seascapes. (Hm. They almost literally straddle a line, don't they? Unintended pun! Or at least unconscious.) A photograph in which absolutely nothing is remotely in focus might also straddle that line.

I don't think there's any answer to this question, but it's a fun little experiment.

"Non-figurative conceptual photography: Photographs created, with or without the aid of a camera, usually with artistic intentions to capture patterns of light, color, shape, or tonality rather than to depict a physical subject. Such images are often intended to evoke emotional or pareidolia reactions from viewers."

There are a lot of examples of abstract photography in the pre-digital era. Man Ray for example. Well really Lee Miller probably. Some William Klein I think and some Harry Callahan.

There is a lot of abstract video, this for example by my friend Matt Schalnger
http://matthewschlanger.com/blog/lumpy-banger
It's made using a Hern video synthesizer which is essentially an audio synthesizer adapted to video. I have a lot of stuff I did in the 1980s at CalArts on a Hern but it's on tape that I have no machine to play it on.

In abstract cinema, there is everything from the stargate scene in 2001 to Stan Brackage's Mothlight https://youtu.be/Yt3nDgnC7M8
or Len Lye's British Post Office advertisements
https://youtu.be/-DksmbDMDUU


I think that part of the problem is that the 21st-century definition of photography is different than the 20th-century definition.

It is sad how language gets corrupted and eventually the corrupted words get accepted as correct. As an example, I find it annoying when Americans (mostly) very often use ‘ton’ or ‘tons’ as a word for ‘lot of things’. To me ton is a specific measure of weight, 1000 kg, and maybe for you Americans, 2000lbs (a short ton). So why say there are tons of people somewhere, or a ton of products for sale in a shop? Why not say lots? Of course lot can also mean a sample or set, but that would not be an entirely wrong way to (mis)understand when talking about the number of people in a concert, for example, or number of products for sale, and certainly better than tons. Another example would be ‘decimate’. It is a very specific term for reducing by 10% but for some unimaginable reason it has come to be used for nearly complete destruction of something. Quite an opposite meaning. Why? Words have meanings, why change them?

Nice picture by the way. Cropping it makes it really ambiguous and no
longer about car wash. But that would be the same about just about any picture with enough definition to allow an extreme crop. That’s why it is so important that the photographer decides the cropping of his own pictures, not an editor afterwards.

This - whether something is really abstract - gets far into the weeds. While we can endlessly debate whether a photograph is "abstract," because we might, for instance, identify it as a picture of rust, is beyond the point. This strikes me as gazing at one's navel. If the typical viewer cannot identify what the picture is of, then, IMO, it's abstract. It is so because it seeks to create an emotional reaction - if well done - based on form and shape, not by identifying known physical items.

Adjectives are overrated IMO.

I like the uncropped shot, which actually contains a nice degree of abstraction that was present at the time.

With all this high falutin talk about what category this photo falls into, we are overlooking the fact that shooting through wet glass can produce interesting photos. I've been doing this for years without caring what category the photo represents. Perhaps my simple mind is easily pleased.

I like Mike's photo and hope to see more like this.

There is literally* no such thing as nonrepresentational art.

Everything represents something, even art.
There are even entire schools of art centered on that idea.

Robert Rauschenberg’s Erased de Kooning Drawing for example is literally an almost blank piece of paper, yet there are hundreds of thousands of words written about what it represents.

There’s a running art world joke that I think I heard from John Baldessari “what does Jackson Pollock‘s Blue Poles represent?
Oh, ( long pause ) about 23 million dollars.”
Joke needs adjustment for inflation, I think 23 was just a funny number.

* figuratively speaking, perhaps. Pun intended.

Aren't all abstract photographs real world objects removed from their context, allowing the viewer to provide the context, which may come from the collective unconscious, or be highly individual.

Just in time for this thread, South African photographer Graeme Williams has released a new video on EweToob: <https://youtu.be/ODF4lx4ZABU?si=Cpa-VdvRqpHjhCsG>.

An abstraction, church vs state?

I have some pictures taken from inside my wife’s car as she jet-washed it. Refraction from the water and soap bubbles made her sunglasses look like giant bug eyes in a swirl of colour. Not an abstraction but a fun distortion. More interesting was how my mind tried to make sense of what it was seeing. Some might enjoy that process more than others, and they might be the people who get more from abstract art than those who like a Hay Wain to look like a Hay Wain.

I got into evolutionary psychology some years ago, and as much as I’ve enjoyed researching it, it’s hard to disagree with its reputation for leaning heavily on just-so stories.

I don't know your opinion/feelings about Graeme Williams, but I thought it was interesting that he just did a episode about abstract photography. I found it decent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODF4lx4ZABU

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