Just an idle question—what, in your opinion, would be the sweet spot in the Nikon Z lineup?
And, more generally, what do you think is the sweet spot in full-frame? I've been taking a look at the whole landscape, and started building a post about all the available alternatives, but it got bogged down—there are an awful lot of 24x36mm-sensor cameras now, especially when you consider compact fixed-lens cameras, pro cameras, and both SLRs and mirrorless.
The Z7 II
If I got a new "colors camera," as Xander called it when he was a little boy, it would probably be a Nikon. Old habits die hard. Hence I've been trying to parse the Z lineup.
To me it looks like the best option for me would be the Z7II, only I'd probably get an original Z7 to save money. It looks passably light and compact, has an amount of resolution that didn't exist when this blog was young, and is pretty reasonably priced all things considered...inflation included. I know Thom has said the Z8 is the sweet spot, but that might be more for a professional or for those for whom it will be their main axe. Since a "colors camera" would play second fiddle to my "grays camera," in Xander's words, I think the Z7 might do it for me.
I'd love to hear your opinion.
Mike
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Featured Comments from:
Bryan Hansel: "For me, it's the Z8. The Z7II doesn't have the latest focus system or features, and that sets the Z8 apart from it."
Nick: "I propose that the improvements from the original to 'II' models are such that a Z6II would be a better result for you than saving money on a original Z7, particularly if you're not that concerned with higher MP. The first versions did somewhat feel like first attempts, so that a Mark II model would be a smoother and more enjoyable process. As an example, it was a deal breaker for me that the Z6(I) did not have or even allow a battery grip with a shutter release. The Nikon grip was a dumb battery holder with no control connection to the body possible. A third party solution had to use a wired connection from a 3.5mm connection on the grip back into the body. How did Nikon forget that people like to use grips with a vertical shutter release?!"
John Krumm: "My guess is that for your type of shooting, the regular Z7 will be a very good color camera, and a very good deal. However, were I in your position, I might instead think of something like a Panasonic S5, something L-mount, to keep lenses shareable with your no-colors camera. Perhaps another rental is in order?
"Then again, maybe you don't want sharable lenses, but a totally separate system."
Kent Phelan: "I have owned a Z7 since 2019 when it first came out. A year ago I purchased a Z7II because the AF was supposedly faster. I needed it for event photography, photographing young people. The 'II' does in fact focus faster, and I rely on it for fast moving subjects, particularly with longer lenses. I should note that there is no visual difference between the results of these cameras. The 'II' model produces images identical to the original (in terms of quality, sharpness, noise etc). I for one think the Z8 is too damn big. Nikon bet the farm on the original Z7 body. It was a world-changing shift for them to introduce a new lens mount and all new Z lenses. They had to get it right. In my opinion they hit a home run. The Z7 form is perfect. In its own way it has grown a bit Leica-esqe to me. After five years of steady use, the controls and haptics are perfect. Reminds me of the well-honed Leica M bodies. Also, the Z lenses are world class, particularly the ƒ/1.8 primes (which are a bargain IMO). Summicron quality. As GM lenses and L lenses from Sony and Canon are now regularly north of $2k, the Nikon Z primes, particularly in ƒ/1.8 guise, stand out in the marketplace. In my opinion they are hidden gems in plain sight. Seriously good.
"I think the Nikon Z system as a whole is the sweet spot in the marketplace. Nikon is back!"
Dale Moreau: "Well, I still use the D800 you convinced me to buy a decade ago even though I was fine with the D700...the D800 was somewhat large for a travel camera, so I added a Fuji X-pr01 then the 2. Last spring someone stole my backpack with the Fuji and a few lenses while in Italy. With the insurance, I decided to replace it with the Z5, since I could use all my Nikon lenses. It was fine...then I started looking at the ZF when it came out, and it quickly won me over. So now I am more than happy with the ZF with old and new manual focus lenses; it works better than the Fuji with those. It's become my everyday camera. And with the resale value of the D800, I just keep it in the car for when I might want the higher pixel count."
Steve Biro: "I own both a Z8 and a Zf. I love both, but I truly believe, for many, the Zf is the way to go. The original Z7 is a good camera, but it’s a bit slow all around. So is the original Z6. There was a reason Nikon added a second processor to the Z6 II and Z7 II. If you’re committed to buying used and you don’t need 45 MP, the Z6 II is still a great option. If you’re buying new and can’t swing the Z8…go for the Zf."
Jeff: "Now there’s the Z6III. "
Jeff1000: "I’ve been doing just dandy with the original Z6 and Z7. If you want extra resolution, the Z7 is a terrific choice, around 46 MP. While the firmware updates have significantly boosted autofocus performance, I believe the Z7 falls short for sports and wildlife photography; although, in the right hands, it could probably suffice. For practically every other type of photography it is well suited, and the image quality is superlative. For what it’s worth, I highly recommend the Z7. One downside for some photographers, but not me, is the single card slot, but that’s your call. "
William Schneider: "Using a Z7-series camera as a second body is exactly what I have done after adding a Z9. In my case, it's a Z7II and not the original Z7. Because the Z7II has two card slots and accepts cheaper SD cards in one of them, I'd suggest a Z7II over the original Z7. This reduces the incremental cost difference between the two and you'll also gain a smattering of technical refinements in the newer body. I find the smallish size of this camera convenient especially when paired with either the Nikon Z 40mm ƒ/2 or the 28mm ƒ/2.8 'muffin' lenses. It makes a compact kit....
"While I sometimes wish for a Z8 as a second camera, a Z7II is more than adequate for my purposes and makes wonderful photographs."
Yes, Z7 II would be it, last month it was a steal at $1,000 off but still a very good value at $700 off currently… The 24-70 f4 “kit” lens is also a winner when bought with a body…
Posted by: Dan B. | Sunday, 16 June 2024 at 05:22 PM
For how you photograph, if it will be similar in color as you do in B&W, the Z7 would fit the bill nicely. You don’t need fast AF, lots of features that would go unused or fast frame rates. The sensor has more detail than you will need, as much dynamic range as you will find necessary and a low digital noise profile. Most find the color science very pleasing. Also, as important, the camera feels good in the hand, the menus are understandable and similar to most all other Nikon full frame cameras and the buttons and dials fall naturally under your fingers. Finally, the value for the cost is outstanding. What’s not to like?
Posted by: Dennis Mook | Sunday, 16 June 2024 at 05:43 PM
I have two Z7s and a Z8.The IQ is the same, but the AF on the Z8 is light years better… this being said, with a Voigtlander manual focus lens, the Z7 is smaller, lighter, and just great. I love these two little cameras.
Posted by: cecelia | Sunday, 16 June 2024 at 05:45 PM
Since you already have the Sigma, why wouldn't you get something with the same lens mount. Something like the Panasonic S5 or the S5II if you need faster autofocus (or video features).
As an alternative, why do you need full frame at all. Don't you still have a Fuji system. Why not just use that for your color camera? If not having IBIS has been holding you back, get a recent Fuji body that has IBIS and use your existing lenses. This also answers your how to sell stuff article. If you keep using what you already have, you don't need to sell stuff. Recent changes in cameras have really not been that significant for most photographers.
Posted by: John Sparks | Sunday, 16 June 2024 at 06:30 PM
More generally, I think the sweet spot in full frame is the Sony ecosystem. And the third party lens options are a very large part of that. If you love the idea of a huge range of highly affordable and character-laden lenses and all the photographic possibilities that come with it, then it’s irresistible. The Z ecosystem is the diametrical opposite.
I personally think camera buyers put so much emphasis on bodies, menus, and feature sets, that it distracts from photography itself. Just get something highly affordable with a superb sensor like the A7R II, then start playing with the ecosystem power.
Check out Phillip Reeve’s guide to the lenses for FE mount, https://is.gd/ceO5XK
Cheers and good luck with this pursuit.
Posted by: Arg | Sunday, 16 June 2024 at 07:22 PM
Well timed topic. I've been primarily shooting m4/3 for the past 10 years, occasionally selling 24 inch prints. Never had a full frame DSLR or Mirrorless. More frequently shooting low light and/or long exposure with opportunity to sell several large (24x36 or 30x40) for some recent project requests (automotive light painting in studio and on location) by a few potential clients. Currently torn between the Nikon Z7 or Z7II, but also closely eyeing the Z6iii that is getting released 12 hours from when I am writing this. I look forward to the follow-up comments as much as you do.
Posted by: Keith | Sunday, 16 June 2024 at 07:54 PM
I'd be all in for the Z8, as the resolution is great for landscapes and the autofocus is great for birds.
I've been pretty happy with my Olympus/OM Systems m4/3 gear, particularly with the OM-1. But I was a Nikon guy from the F2 through the D800 and miss the feel of a Nikon in my hand. The Z8 hits my sweet spot and is calling to me.
It's ridiculous, because m4/3 does 95% of what I want it to do.
Posted by: Rick Popham | Sunday, 16 June 2024 at 08:42 PM
Why not a Sigma FP? The colors are really good, you get to keep the same haptics and share lenses. It'll, be like having one camera loaded for color, another for B&W.
But if you are set on Nikon, a Z7 may be a false economy. It doesn't take SD cards, so you will have to get the very expensive CF Express cards instead. I'd rather get a Z6 II, give up megapixels I don't need, get better processors for faster, smarter AF, and have SD cards. And that will be the prior generation as of tomorrow.
Posted by: James | Sunday, 16 June 2024 at 09:50 PM
There is no question in my mind about the answer to both the queries, it is the Nikon Z8. It is the camera that can do everything, and the most versatile camera body I have ever used - keep in mind that that is a large sample size, because the first camera I owned was a Kodak Retinette 1B in 1961, and the first SLR was a Nikon F in 1967. For my use, it has only one weakness - and that might even be a strength for a lot of users - it is not having two card slots taking the CFE (B) cards, because I tend to backup in the camera on my safari trips, and not overwrite my cards, which obviates the need to carry a laptop with me, as I have two sets of my images automatically.
Posted by: Jayanand Govindaraj | Sunday, 16 June 2024 at 11:02 PM
Mike, I have had a Z6II + Z7II for about a year now after being condemned to work with Nikon D800/Fuji XE-2 for about 10 years. The Z6II/Z7II are miraculously small. The Z7II delivers lovely picture quality. I'd call its sensor about half a notch better than the D800/E. The live histogram in teh finder eliminates most bracketing...that's been really nice for me.
The Z6II (gosh I'm tired of typing those two 'I's) is hampered by the AA filter on the sensor, though interestingly, it gives nice looking results when paired with any good lens at the tiny stops like f/11, f/16 where lenses get a bit soft but the appearance of extreme depth of field is produced. Two fuzzys = a clear?? I have no explanation.
You will, of course, have to spend several tedious hours turning off all the features you don't want to use.
I have acquired several Z lenses and 5 FTZ adapters. BTW, FTZ is better than FTZ-2, due to inferior internal blackening on the FTZ-2.
Posted by: Keith B | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 12:06 AM
I have a Z6 and a Z7II. If I had it to do over,I might have stopped with the Z6. Honestly, you have to work hard at large magnifications to find a difference. This is especially true, I think, if you're one of the many shooters who are not doing complicated professional work, and are mostly working in natural light.
I also have a Fuji X-T5 and I think you'd like that better than the Nikons, having read your blog forever. It's well designed, as well designed as the Nikons (which, for ergonomics, maybe be the best of the FF cameras, IMHO.) The Fuji is about the same size as the Nikons, but the Nikon Z lenses are large and heavy (and excellent.) The Fujis are more compact. With all three cameras in hand, I tend to shoot with the Z7II because I'm a longtime Nikon user, and for people like me, the Nikon simply fits like a familiar glove. But the Fuji is a very friendly camera.
Posted by: John Camp | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 12:46 AM
Unless you’re hell-bent on full frame (the only full frame cameras I’ve owned were shooting 35mm Kodachrome), I’d look at a Nikon Z50 kit. Refurbished the kit is about $850, the lenses are great, and it hangs off your wrist like a piece of jewelry. Honestly, Mike does your “colors” camera need more than 20 megapixels? Didn’t think so.
Posted by: Bob | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 12:54 AM
Z5 for me... if any.
Posted by: Wolfgang Lonien | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 03:03 AM
I have a Z7 and love its image quality. However, if you like fast lenses (like I do) you'll have to consider their size. A Zeiss 35/1.4 ZF.2 makes for a very front-heavy setup on the relatively lightweight Z7 body.
As a consequence, I hardly ever use the Z7. Instead, I use a system in which the size of the lenses is more in tune with that of the camera bodies.
Posted by: Carsten Bockermann | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 03:04 AM
Well, to me you seem like a "taking it slow and easy" kind of guy !
You shoot Sigma as your Grey camera which takes time and effort off thought which adds to the satisfaction in the results.
You prefer single primes if I am not mistaken.
The answer to the colour (color) question is simple- SIGMA.
DP QUATRO. with the choice of lens size model. I use a DP2 and the Foveon colours are sublime. You lose little converting to DNG for ease of use if needed. I use the Viewfinder LVF-01 (you may be able to use your Finder).
Don't get sucked in to the latest camera "rush".
So, consider this while humming to oneself Pauls Simons "Feelin Grovey" And treat yourself to two hours of bliss and watch PERFECT DAYS a film by Wim Wenders.
Posted by: martyn | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 06:07 AM
For an F-mount comparison, Thom placed the Z7 a little below the D850 in terms of capability. Obviously the Z8 sits above a D850.
If you don’t want/need the high resolution, then the Z6 range is fine too.
Don’t forget that Z mount lenses aren’t exactly cheap, especially those designed to get the most out of high resolution sensors.
Good luck.
Posted by: Not THAT Ross Cameron | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 07:16 AM
Yes. I have the Z7ii. It has more features than I’ll ever use and amazing resolution. I’m not sure if it has any real advantage over the Z7, but if you wait a bit I wonder if a Z7iii might be coming, which could make the ii a better bargain.
Posted by: Dave Levingston | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 07:32 AM
This is tough, because what I photograph optimally requires two different equipment approaches.
For action, my Z9 does everything I need and then some.
For generalist photography determining a sweet spot is tougher. I settled on a Zf, but if I did more landscape work a Z7 series body would probably be a better fit. I haven’t experimented with Zf’s pixel shift feature.
I’m not one to chase the newest and latest hardware, but I think the feature set of the new Z6iii may make it the current sweet spot Z body by a wide margin.
Posted by: Ken Ford | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 09:12 AM
The sweet spot obviously depends on what you want from the camera. On a recent trip to England I decided that I really need a "second" camera – something better than an iPhone, but something noticeably lighter than the Nikon DSLR gear I carried.
Looking at the full-frame Z line, it turns out that it's hard to meaningfully reduce weight vs. my D750 kit. The bodies are not significantly lighter, and the lenses – well, glass and metal simply aren't light. But their APS-C cameras (Zfc, Z50) and DX lenses are significantly lighter. I can put something together which will cover the same focal length range as my D750 kit, but will let me walk out the door with 75% less weight. That's my sweet spot for a second camera. YMMV.
While I haven't used a Z7, I have no doubt that it is objectively a "better" camera than a Z50 or Zfc. But it won't meet my need for significantly less weight, so it's not a candidate. I did briefly shoot with a Z50 several years ago, and was very happy with its operation and image quality, so I'm going to give it a go.
Posted by: Peter Conway | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 10:23 AM
Last year I traded up from my Z5 to a Z7II and now . . . I'm wondering. It turns out that I don't really need 45mp! Maybe it's psychological, but I've gone back to carrying my Olympus E-M1II on my morning walks. I was happy to have the Nikon on my recent Montana trip, however.
Posted by: Mike Mundy | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 11:09 AM
Z50 because it doesn't use those cursed CF Express cards.
Posted by: psu | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 11:14 AM
I have a Z7ii and can really recommend it! It is tough and reliable while compact and not too heavy. It handles well, the image stabilization works wonders and the files are beautiful and easy to work with - at any ISO. Since it got bad a bad rap by the "reviewers", it can be had for reasonable prices. This is by no means a "make do", but a seriously good camera in its own right.
But: I don't think that this camera makes sense for you! If you already know that the work you *really* care for is monochrome, and you already have a converted camera, if you buy a Z7 you are a) seriously over-buying; b) you will own two cameras which handle completely different; and c) you won't get a compact 35mm lens for the Z7ii.
If I were you and were looking for a "color camera" for family pictures and documentary work, I'd just use your X-T1. If, on the other hand, you definitely want a FF camera, I'd look for a secondhand Panasonic S1 or S5 - then you could use your existing lens. Either way, pictures will be indistinguishable from the Z7 and you'll save a lot of money.
Posted by: Thomas Rink | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 12:20 PM
To me this is a bit like asking “What is the sweet spot in large format cameras with movements”? The question doesn’t mean anything. There was a time when that would not be true, but that time is passed – for me at least.
Posted by: Peter Wright | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 12:36 PM
I would push a Z6III, or ZF, before a Z7. 24mp is enough for me, tho. The Pixel-shift both cameras offer might handle any higher-res needs, but the improvement in speed and low light performance over a Z7 make them more fun to use.
That being said, you don't really shoot action, from what you have shown, and don't seem to demand a ton from autofocus systems, so a used Z7 is definitely a big price bargain and a heckuva camera still.
The Z lenses will delight you optically and likely frustrate you with their size, but golly they are GOOD.
Posted by: Rob L. | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 02:27 PM
Probably a late comment on this one but I'm planning on getting the Z5. It has all of the abilities of the later Z cameras, really, and I've learned from my D810 that while it's fun playing with 45 mp, I know full well from my M 240 that the 24 mp of the Z5 is more than enough to get the job done several times over for a better price.
They are the same size, almost the same weight, etc and the only other differences I am aware of is that the 7 can do ISO 64, has a faster burst speed and has CFexpress Card Support none of which are important to me. Your milage, may, vary as they say.
What I save on the camera can then be spent on adapters for LTM, M, M42, FD & obviously F mount manual focus lenses that I already own as it does a lovely job with them. Heck I might even get it with the native 40mm lens as I have been told it's a nice lens but honesly, I doubt it because my real purpose is to use it as a digital back for all my old glass.
My goal is to have it in hand by my birthday (9/30) and then after that I hope to fabricate a homebrew adapter for at least my 4x5 Speed Graphic so I can use those lovely old lenses digitally too!
Posted by: William Lewis | Monday, 17 June 2024 at 07:41 PM
Wow it's looking like the Z5 club in here. I looked long and hard and picked the Z5 with the 24-120 f/4 Z-mount and an extra battery. I have taken a lot of photos with it in the past 18 months and I rarely think i need more resolution.
I do love the Z7 II with its subject detection and ability to shoot 5:4 in camera but i found the price hard to digest - especially now that taking photos is not my bread and butter.
OTOH if i was a canon user i might have picked the R6 mark II as it is the right blend of features for the right price. the sonys mostly leave me cold though and i havent had any chance to get my hands on any l-mount cameras so that's the breadth of my experience.
Posted by: almostinfamous | Tuesday, 18 June 2024 at 02:04 AM
I've got a pair of Z6 bodies that I've shot since 2019 and a Z7 II since 2022. This evolved from a pair of D800 bodies (and large lenses with lots of weight) and its super image quality to shooting for a few years with Oly and Panasonic M43 bodies with lovely lenses but delicate bodies that I managed to destroy and then back to Nikon Z with durability and spectacular lenses but able to use my legacy collection.
This is a sort-of tweeter between the DSLR and the M43 as to bodies, but not much size/weight savings with the lenses.
When I bought my Z7 II, I considered a Z7 for the price, but the autofocus was a great improvement and the long shutter speeds up to 15 minutes for night photography was a bonus. The AF upgrade in the II series is worth it to me, too.
The kit lenses, 24-70, 24-120 and 24-200, are all more than adequate. What got me getting into the grove besides being able to use my legacy F lenses, manual andl AF, was the 14-30mm, a key to my style of shooting which requires me to work close to my subjects and in small, dark environments.
Two surprising lenses I use are the 24-200, not bad even on even the Z7 other than its sloooow f/6.3 aperture at 200 mm and the 70-180 f/2.8 that takes 67mm filters and is maybe half the weight of the 70-200 and just 2/3rds the size.
Both of these lenses will more than meet the mark of adequacy.
As to IQ on the Z6 and the Z7, most of my work is fine at shot at 24mp. Although 24 mp is way too much for any social media posting but its just fine for much of what I shoot as a generalist. Even my specialty of shooting in dark churches and cathedrals, it's totally fine.
When I want the best IQ, then it's time to use the Z7 II. 45mp is more than enough for 24x16 and lovely prints and rich detail/tonality even up to 60x40 I've found.
If you are going to print big or need to crop down a lot, then look at the Z7 bodies. However, if you need more manageable file sizes and not printing over maybe 30x20 regularly, the Z6 iI/III or even the Zf with many of the same features as the Z6 III/ Z8 will probably be fine.
As for the durability, it was four years before I sent my first Z6 for a sensor cleaning and a second body had just a couple of cracked body k
Pick your favorite Z lens, fixed or zoom, or even adapt an older vintage lens and you'll be just fine.
Posted by: Larry Angier | Tuesday, 18 June 2024 at 02:10 AM
For a current comparison, with the Z6III just being announced, Thom Hogan has a nice comparison:
https://www.zsystemuser.com/nikon-z-system-news-and/how-does-the-z6-iii-compare.html
If you don't care about video, and don't need cutting edge AF, I think an original Z6 or Z7 are still great (I have a Z6). Check and see how much price difference there is though between those and the Mark II versions.
The Nikon 40mm f/2 Z might be right up your alley too.
Posted by: Brian | Tuesday, 18 June 2024 at 09:16 AM
Z5
Posted by: schralp | Wednesday, 19 June 2024 at 01:34 AM
Just in case z6 iii just come out and please do not get zf as it is just z6 ii. High mp is z8. And focusing is z8. (Z9 is …). Btw even z8 does not have the 5m viewfinder.
You should get z6 iii. Very soon.
Posted by: Dennis Ng | Wednesday, 19 June 2024 at 10:17 AM
You never gelled with the "Big Dragoon," as you called a Nikon DSLR you owned (and kept for less than a year). And, well, you did write this about how much it bothered you to waste money on a camera you barely used: /the_online_photographer/2018/02/am-i-crazy-my-camera-buying-frenzy.html
Why go down that road again?
Why not do as another commenter said and use your Fuji as your color camera. You already have it, and it is paid for.
Posted by: Ken | Wednesday, 19 June 2024 at 10:21 AM
After reading the featured comments and all the comments, it seems you are saying Z7, but we are saying, no, lower. 6 or 5 or even less.
Don't forget the Zf, which was a hot item around here not too long ago. Don't you want a dials camera?
(This reminds me of you thinking you need a Mac Studio, when it too is way more computer than you need, just because it is the "middle of the road" chassis.)
[No, actually I want a Mac Studio because it has a better fan and my Mini chronically overheats, it has more ports and I'm chronically short of ports, and it has a convenient built-in easy-to-reach card reader like Macs used to have. --Mike]
Posted by: James | Thursday, 20 June 2024 at 04:25 PM