<|-- removed generator --> The Online Photographer: Volusion Nightmare

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Monday, 25 November 2013

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Mike,
A nightmare. I didn't buy in this sale, but rest assured, if this bunch of crooks holds onto any of the money, you have plenty of friends who will help out. Just say the word.
Claude Evans

Mike: not your fault. I have no idea how US law works in these matters, but in the UK you would have some recourse to Trading Standards. Surely what they're doing is illegal as well as unethical.

Mike,
I just emailed Volusion, telling them that if they have a convincing side to this story, they had better make it public, and quickly. I want to suggest that all Friends of TOP email Volusion to express their dismay.
Claude Evans

Mike, first and foremost you have my sympathy and best wishes from over in the UK. Although this is heartbreaking news for everyone concerned (especially yourself) we do not want your health to suffer.

Secondly, encourage all your customers to lodge formal complaints with their bank or credit card companies. With enough complaints Volusion will find that their ability to take "customer not prezent" payments withdrawn (which will impact their business and help prevent them pulling a similar scam again in the future).

"Chin up old chap" as Hollywood has all us brits saying!
Robert.

Time to start making your voice herd. Now a days its easy. A quick look on there website shows they have all the social media outlets, facebook, twitter etc... Time (two weeks ago probably) to start hitting those with your story and simply telling people of your bad experiences. This gets you noticed big time and is completely in your rights to post your experience. If you don't want to do it I am happy to do it as should all of your followers and thats a lot. We trust you Mike that you will be able to resolve it and you shouldn't loose sleep over it. You could hire a lawyer but social media is much more powerful and free. Youtube is also a great way to make yourself herd, ask me if you need help making a video.

Man, I am so sorry to hear this. Stay strong. Us loyal TOP readers have faith that you'll get this worked out. All the blame falls on Volusion.

Mike, If you need the money again let me know.
[email protected],
after looking at the web complaints you have a lot of company.

Bill

Ouch! That seems to be the prominent failure mode with payment processors.

I didn't actually think there was anything that strange about your business model (on print sales). They're objecting to the time lag between order and shipment? Or they're raving incoherently and have not managed to communicate what's really at issue?

Hi Mike, I am very sorry to hear this. I do think its great you are up front about it. After some years working in finance, my suggestion would be that all whose who have not received their funds back from this transaction request their credit cards to be recharged. However, I dont know if that would mean funds coming out of your account, in this case. I do know it can take some time to action this, e.g if the company itself does not have the liquidity then they might drip feed the refunds. Final advice would be to buy a credit check on any critical supplier. Let me know if you need any assistance. Good luck.

Mike, really sorry to hear this. It's a really unfortunate event and I'm thinking of you and how you must feel. I hope that all your readers will bear with you and that it all gets sorted out quickly, both for you and your customers.

Hang in there.

Mike.

Mike, I think you should consider giving Volusion's contact info to your loyal readers. I, for one, would be quite happy to send Volusion an irate complaint ... or two or three. I imagine that some other readers may be able to complain more publicly via facebook or twitter and might also be happy to do so. You've got a lot of friends who will take up your very just cause. So don't stress out too much. It'll all work out in the long run.

Hey there.....

OK....take a deep breath....go for a long walk....maybe take a camera....you need to realize a few, very fundamental things.....

Past customers know you are an honorable person who will not rip them off.....yeah, you screwed up, but if you're not making mistakes from time to time you're not doing anything interesting in the world.....

So....you made a mistake.....a lot of this is out of your control.....accept that. If they do not refund each and every customer, you can refer them to law enforcement....not the best solution, I agree.....but they're relentless and they don't operate on a cost benefit model.....they operate on a drive a stake into the bad guy's heart model.....

If you have a lawyer, I would suggest you pay them to draft and send a letter to The Company That Must Not Be Named.....often, a letter from a lawyer carries more weight, than a letter from a person who could otherwise hire a lawyer....it doesn't make sense, but it is so.....

This will work out....these folks may be completely legit....try getting money back from your bank if you pay too much on the wrong bill online.....lol....they're operating interstate, so it might not hurt to reach out to the FBI....that might sound like overkill, but maybe just throwing those three letters out there will spark some action....

You should blog about it. You should let everyone know. If they're screwing you, and your customers, they're likely screwing other people too....

It would suck if you had to refund people out of your own pocket, but if you do it carefully, trust your customers to be honest, you will for the most part be rewarded I think....most people are basically good....

Maybe you should look at an amazon setup (I have no affiliation) or some other large, well known provider....never heard of that one before, which in and of itself is a flag.....

Don't stress....the community knows you....and knows what sort of a person you are....and that is why we all trust you....money can always be replaced....

And no....I didn't order a print....was tempted, just not quite ready.....but it wouldn't matter....I'd feel the same way if I had and my money was stuck in limbo...its your fault because you made a bad choice, its not your fault on a day to day basis....

So, take a deep breath...pick up a camera, and go for a walk and look at things....seriously.....this too will pass....

Mike,

No rants here. I am very sorry for your troubles. You are too good for this s**t. Take care of yourself.

Regards,

Chris

Mike, you will get through this and you have more friends and supporters than you might be aware. Just persist. Warm regards, Keith Mitchell

oh, I'm so sorry Mike. I can't imagine I'm going to say something that your other readers haven't said, so I'm going to stick with that. If there was something I could do, I would do it.

For what it's worth, our Christmas Amazon orders almost always go through TOP's affiliate program.

Will

Mike, I hope everything gets solved as painlessly as possible. Hang in there, all your fans appreciate all the effort you put in this site and the new store. Don't let these ·!$%!·$&" ruin this fantastic corner of the internet.

I work professionally in software development, so if you have any question I may be able to help.

Sorry to hear of the problems you have encountered, Mike.

Perhaps a call to the Texas Rangers would be worthwhile. No one in their right mind would mess with those guys.

I doubt I would ever have the need for the services of Volusion but the company has certainly gone to the top of my shit list and I would think many other readers will give them a wide berth following your experience.

I hope it all works out in the end and your customers are repaid.

By the way I posted this on WBTL in support. http://writtenbythelight.blogspot.com/2013/11/caveat-emptor.html

Mike, what does your lawyer say? I can only presume that you have a lawyer specializing in business fraud. You may have a case, but it also might cost you more to pursue it than you could ever hope to recover. All of us in TOP World can understand the angst this must be causing you. Just know that it will eventually come to an end.

You need a TOP reader with connections in Austin. Kirk Tuck comes to mind.

Perhaps we should write (politely) to Volusion, vouch for you as a trustworthy person, and ask them what on earth they think they are playing at. The TOP effect has been known to affect book sales. Perhaps it could trigger a bout of fair play on Volusion's part.

Doubt it will help, but I sent them an email!

Mike,
I am mortified. What a nightmare--a company holding/stealing your customers' money.

Small consolation, apparently many have had problems with them: www.seoshoppingcarts.com/reviews/volusion

Remember, this is NOT your fault. YOU are not to blame, it is Volusion which caused the problem.

Best of luck. Marilyn

Wow! I thought I was having a bad day parenting a teenager.

What can we as TOP readers do to help! Perhaps there is someone among us who has the expertise to get to the bottom of this mess.

Mike, it's NOT your fault.

You made reasonable effort to check out the company before signing up. That is all anyone could expect of you. What happened was not foreseeable. If the company had any grounds to disagree they should have sorted that out beforehand.

Your TOP readership knows you and trusts you. If there is one (well, two) words I would associate with you, it's honesty and integrity. I hope you can draw some comfort that we, your readers, will not associate your good name with actions that were outside your control.

You have been honest with your customers and kept them informed of what is happening and why it happened. From the sound of it you are making every reasonable effort to resolve the situation. That is all that can be expected of you.

What happened is deeply unfortunate but it is not a reflection of who you are and what you do. Your readers, Mike, are quite capable of making that distinction. Please have confidence in your readership. You have earned that confidence.

Oh, and I suggest you seek legal advice.

Kind regards,
Lynn

You have my utmost sympathy. There are certainly some sharkes out there in the e-commerce pool. Check out the reviews here.
http://www.seoshoppingcarts.com/reviews/volusion/

Mike, you are running a business in the real world of things that go wrong. It's bad, but it happens, and it's not worth your health. Roll with it, take a deep breath, make a list of things that can and need to be done. Prioritise the list and then do the things, one after another (one of those things might include reaching out for some legal advice).

Don't say no more print sales. Just no more through these crooks.

And, y'know, if you link to their site from this post you'll help Google help the next guy who searches for their name to find out what 'people' think. ;)

I've emailed Volusion and expressed my outrage at their actions. I hope you find a way to lessen the stress soon. I know just how sick it can make you.

Sounds like the Attorney General of Texas needs to be contacted for fraudulent practices

Mike,
Hang in there. I got my refund from Volusion, and hopefully everyone else will also (eventually). I am not exactly sure why I say this (after all, I don't know you from Adam), but I trust you and believe you are sincere and truly apologetic. Fight through it.
Jim B.

You might consider filing a complaint with Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott.

Mike, two things:

First, this too shall pass. Easy to say, I know, but I also know you know it's true. Don't make yourself sick, it's not worth that.

Second, maybe crowd source a fire under their asses? I'd certainly give you an hour of my time, whether it be to write a letter to an attorney generals' office or something of the sort. I bet there's even a TOP reader who happens to be a practicing attorney that would help out, if it's possible.

Let us know. You give us readers a lot; I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to give back in some possible way.

might be worth sharing your experience: http://consumerist.com

Mike just Pay their Fees and Use PayPal for everything. It is expensive, but your health and attitude are worth it! And the security and convenience of your clients.

http://www.seoshoppingcarts.com/reviews/volusion/

I feel your pain Mike.

I was going to mention something when I first noticed you were using them. We've had several clients come to us with them looking for alternatives based on poor service. That said, other carts/payment gateways typically offer even worse customer service or none at all. I tend to recommend open source carts with a payment module that works best for the client. Then, I'm the contact when something goes wrong.

I really just hope that Dwolla and Square make deeper in-roads into this space because currently it's kind of a confusing cluster of legal-bank-techno babble.

Really sorry to hear about such troubles. Best of luck getting them sorted out! Best advise since you're in the US: lawyer up. It will cost more upfront, but will probably save you money in the medium/long term, and certainly let you breathe.

As for your customers, the best solution is to have them call their credit card company, explain the situation, refer to this post, and arrange a chargeback. It's easy, fast and painless for the customer, but VERY painful for the other end. If this goes to court and it goes sideways, you might end up paying some or all of the expenses from the chargebacks, though.

Just posted a link to your story on their facebook wall. Hopefully a few people see it and they get off their backsides.

Quick note, they took it down within minutes, so I guess they are capable of doing things in a timely fashion when it suits them.

I will be sure to spread the word.

Mike, this sounds a little suspicious it may be time to send your information and complaint to the US justice department since any violation crosses state lines? In the future maybe you should handle the sales yourself and use paypal. That is a great payment system for the internet age and I think you can do it yourself.
One more thing, I have yet to receive my "French kiss" book, are they still being shipped? If I don't get it by weeks end I was going to email Peter.
Either way your customers will understand about the book sale, but I would send each one a note with reference to volusion. They can address it directly with the company. Have a great holiday and try not to worry about it too much.

Hang in there, Mike. This will be a foul memory receding in the rear view mirror in no time. Regarding those pesky palpitations, try giving up coffee and anything else containing caffeine until this situation is resolved.

It appears to be an instance of theft by failure to make required disposition. I might turn this over to the local district attorney or police where the company has headquarters. Clients should notify their credit card issuers also.

Very weird - particularly as your online presence, as well as the TOP community, is such a substantial one. It's not like you set up shop yesterday.

Here's hoping it resolves soon.

Chin up Mike. Looks like you are not the only one who has had a terrible experience with these jokers.

http://download.cnet.com/Volusion-Ecommerce-Solution/3000-2649_4-75123242.html

http://www.seoshoppingcarts.com/reviews/volusion/ (see comments).

Good luck with sorting it out.

http://www.pissedconsumer.com/reviews-by-company/volusion.html You should have read this, first.

Yikes, so sorry to hear that. Posting about your experience online is probably the best way to get the word out, and like a bad Yelp review, might be the only way to get them to budge. A quick Google search turned up some frustrations with Volusion, but nothing glaring. Maybe try Shopify next time? Best of luck.

Mike,

I wasn't a buyer, and don't have any money at stake…but please, be at peace. You are a good and honest man, a voice of moderation and reason. Please don't let this ruin your health, Volusion isn't worth it. They'll get what they deserve in time.

Best regards,
Tim

Maybe contact Zenfolio

http://www.zenfolio.com/

You can set up your own domain, and then they sit in the background and handle the money and such.

They are a small group. You send them an email, someone gets back to you quickly. In English (meaning not in tech-talk). Their interest is photography and making things happen just like you want.

Drop them a line. They might not have an existing system for what you want to do, but they might be willing to work with you.

And I have NEVER heard of any shady dealings by them.

Sorry for the existing problem. It will settle out. And your reputation will keep people interested in whatever system you develop. It's one of the benefits of being honest- people will ride out tough times with you.

Best- Dan

Mike, I would immediately call the Texas Attorney General's office. They have an active consumer protection agency that may be able to help, although you are a business.

Mike,

I would suggest that you inform Volusion that if they do not make full restitution by time and date that you specify (by certified letter) that you will report them to Dunn & Bradstreet, the Better Business Bureau, and appropriate legal authorities in both your area and their area.

Be sure to specify exactly what you want done and give a very specific time and date for completion and notification of you.

Mike, I really hope this torrential outpouring of understanding and support from your loyal friends and readers helps to ease your troubles. The most unfortunate fact that you are feeling actual, physical pain over this serves as testament to your integrity, transparency and dedication to doing the right thing by us all.

I genuinely hope, for your sake, that the knowledge of just how many friends you have here who are willing to help - whether current buyers or not - is testament to how highly we all think of you and the value we place on what you do here on TOP. Even more, I hope for your sake this knowledge helps to clear your conscience and lets you get some rest!

By now I should expect you've received at the very least a few private emails from influential friends, willing to do what they can to help right your ship. If there were something within my own power (of which I actually possess very little) to help, I am nonetheless at your disposal.

Mike,
I want to add another word of support. Your site is a valued resource for thousands of us because of your integrity and knowledge, and your eye/ear for interesting things we get nowhere else.
In handling this sale you went through the steps needed, so enough with the self-blame! Easy for me to say, but I'll say it anyway: take care of yourself, don't let others' bad behavior destroy you, keep doing what you do well (including print sales) and we will stick by you.
You've had lots of practical business advice; I am sure it will get resolved.
FYI, I did get my refund, so hopefully their process will eventually work through them all, and none of us will ever have to deal with them again.
Geof
PS: I finally got my copy of "here far away" - wonderful book and without you I'd never have known!

I seem to remember another post asking peoples opinions about Texas...hmmm...

And as a follow-up to a previous post about getting a "lawyer today" I suggest its a Nawlins lawyer, they know how to handle Texans.

Mike;
I just wanted to give you another vote of support on this horrible problem and hope you can ride it out with your usual grace.
Greg

Hey Mike...and others,

I didn't see my comment posted and after reading more of some of the other comments, I'm more confused than I was when you first posted it. If you are having your customers pay via PayPal then the funds are going to straight to the PayPal account. Which is how my site operates and how I've always paid when shopping online. So I guess I'm confused, or did I misread something?

[Hi Jason, We had no trouble with any of the payments made through PayPal. All of those are fine. --Mike]

Mike, why don't you ask your readers, all your readers to write to volusion ?

Via email, on twitter, on facebook. Everywhere.

I'll gladly do it,and I'm sure many others will as well. Everyone writes at the same time to prove we - your customers - think you are reliable.

Dear Mike

See it in a positive way: this will fasten your weight loss program!

Don't worry, the bad guys always lose in American movies, so don't give up and you'll be fine.

Olivier

Mike,

I am sorry to hear of what you are going through. Your reputation is strong enough that it will survive this, not to worry about that.

Another vote for Squarespace to provide the service you are looking for. They are fantastic. 24/7 human support. Apple-like business sense and www design. When NY was flooded and lost power after Hurricane Sandy, these guys were hauling diesel to keep their generators and servers going. AND they were still answering support calls and email; didn't miss a beat.

Cheers,
Mark

I will happily add to the chorus and say that there's nobody who regularly visits TOP who would begin to think your intentions or actions are in any doubt whatsoever. It's a painful episode for sure but it will work out fine in the end.

What we all want is for TOP to continue in the way you have ably run it; that requires you to be well and enjoying it. Take the phone off the hook, drink a modest glass of your favourite tipple and go for a nap. You are more to most of us then just some bloke on the internet. Hope you realise it.

Sleep well,

James

I wonder if the Square Cash app could be a simple payment method?

All the best.....at least now all your readers (and that's quite a heap) know about them. Bad to be the middleman in a sale like this (with responsibilities to both sides). But having said that my rule off thumb these days is to trust no one on the web untill I've seen some reviews about them from people I more or less trust.

Greats, Ed.

Mike:
You = George Bailey
Volusion = Mr. Potter
Us = People of Bedford Falls

Desired outcome:

Tip Jar momentarily. Let the many supportive comments sustain you also.

UK based but not affected. It seems to me there are 2 separate issues here. The first is that Mike has not had the service they contracted to provide and his business has been damaged as a consequence. The second is that each affected customer is having their money impounded. Each affected customer should contact their credit card company for an immediate refund AND file their complaint against Volusion.

Hi,

I would suggest to check bitcoin transactions, so this won't happen to you again:

http://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1rg3cc/good_guy_getting_screwed_the_online_photographers/

Stick with just using PayPal as there is a sales solution there for you.

Mike,
Very sorry to hear about this ordeal. Things will eventually get straight.

Yes, file complaints with every regulatory agency that might be even remotely involved. Raise hell. Don't expect immediate action, however. None of these agencies will act until they receive huge numbers of complaints and can muster the resources to pursue a course of action. That's why it's important that you let your complaints be known to the bureaucrats involved and follow up if you get no response. You should also contact your US Congressman. You may not have voted for him/her and you may not even like them very much but, dammit, they are supposed to work for you. Make 'em work. I know from past experience both in working for a governmental agency and as a civilian with a solid grievance that your US Representative's office can get results. You may be surprised at what they can accomplish.

Again, sorry as hell about this.

What did you mean by saying the company did not like your "business model," that they said you were "untrustworthy, and that you were a "risk" to them? Did they just throw those words out there as some sort of vague justification for not turning over the credit card payments (and severing your relationship with them), or was there additional explanation that accompanied their actions?

I looked briefly at the "contract" on their web site (under "legal"), and while it says they can terminate the relationship at their whim, for any reason, I did not see anything in my brief look at the document that says anything about keeping credit card payments.

cfw

Wow, what an awful experience. Myself and other (former) Volusion store owners are following your story hoping that things work out for you.

If you want to commiserate with others, Google "Volusion Forum" and stop by the C7 e-commerce forums. I'm sure other store owners and consultants alike would be interested in learning how this went so bad.

Good luck out there.

Poor you. And what thieves. Makes me angry.

Wow. I'm really envious for your experience. Nah, not the first part - having to deal with unscrupulous companies sucks. But to have such a supportive audience - you must be doing something right after all ;-)

My sympathies for having met those schmucks. Congratulations for honing such an audience!

Sorry to hear about your problems with Volusion. If the print sales mostly have been working for you up to now I would strongly encourage you to continue them, as they seem to represent a good deal for both print buyers and photographers.

My impression is that the integrity of the Mike Johnston "brand" is intact despite this recent problem, which (like a large, particularly jagged kidney stone) will eventually pass. As to the stress levels, very understandable, but I hope you find some relief and don't let it damage your health. Your integrity is doubtless contributing to the experienced stress: you are in the position of feeling responsible for what happened, but have relatively little control over the resolution. Decent people get stressed out by this, sociopathic types happily dust off their hands and declare themselves blameless.

Hmm. Really got me this one. I too have suffered injustice physically and (I hope) have learnt to cast off the physical repercussions. Please don't let it ruin your health - I'm sure you've heard this before but it's not worth it - nothing is more important than your health.
Having said this I quote something from a website called merchant maverick:
"What's also not mentioned on their site is that this 'in-house' processing is actually more of a partnership between Volusion and First Data Merchant Solutions. In a nutshell, Volusion resells First Data's processing platform under their own brand name. So, if you sign up with Volusion Merchant Services, then you're pretty much signing up with First Data."
The latter unfortunately is based in Malaysia; I recommend patience above all - Asian response to foot-stamping is completely different to the American's way of dealing with things. It will take much longer but the tiger always lets go of the bone eventually ...

173 comments, and not a single ill feeling directed toward you, Mike. Take heart, then go after the bastards.

And by the way, I'll also put in a good word for Squarespace. I've got no experience with their e-commerce program, but I do have my website hosted by them. Their customer service is second to none, and from what I've read, they're a great outfit to work for.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/gallery/20121202/FEATURES/120209870/49

From the ghastly reputation of this Volusion company on the net, it seems likely they are by now in dire legal and financial straights. While they ought to be in jail, I suspect there is little substance remaining behind all the window-dressing.

Mike, just don't worry about things that are out of your control, ask everyone whose money has been retained to have their credit card charges reversed, and put it all behind you as soon as you can.

Just my $0.02. IANAA.

Slightly off topic, and I am fortunate to not be directly affected by this, but is some of the difficulty in finding these less than stellar reviews due to the various 'reputation defender' services that I hear hawked on the radio so often?

Total sympathy for the situation, dont tear yourself to pieces.

The probable outcome is, a few months from now... You will be in business with loyal customers, Voluvision will not.

Oh, and as a PS to my multiple attempts to post the last comment, your anti-whatever typo-cryptograms are getting too hard, I thought I was good at these but it took me three attempts before I was accepted as a genuine poster. Just sayin'.

You live, you learn. At any rate, you live. Sorry to hear this, Mike. But do not worry - it will be merely a brief stall in what will no doubt turn into a wonderfully successful venture. I'm sure 99% of those who transacted through the site trust you implicitly in this situation. Between yourself and the credit card companies, I'm sure nobody will go short. Chin up.

Dear Mike, we love you!

And we will not go away, because you run the best blog on photography! And all things related life, but not necessary photography :-)

I bought a subscription. Hope this helps! Do not read for free, help Mike, he deserves our support.

Now, please take good care of your self. The rest will sort out. Let us know if you need further help of any kind. Friends help each other, do not worry.

you should contact the State Attorney General in Texas. I did so one time with the SAG of Ohio over some shady practices from Care Credit (we paid for a dental procedure with no interest/12mo). It was because of their call, letter, email, whatever that we got our money back (the CC company was charging interest when they weren't supposed to).

"entirely my fault" - from what you've said that bit's nonsense. Kick ass. Sue for breach of contract.

Wow. Selfish incompetence can certainly do a lot of damage. Have courage, the trouble will end, and you again will have been instrumental in bringing some great photographs to a community of photographers.

TOP print sales provide a unique service, and it depends on your relationships with two communities. If you stop doing this, nobody is going to pick it up. We're all excited to see the first of hopefully many books---another great idea. These small, wonderful endeavors, ended because of the mindless, thoughtless acts of fools? That would be obscene.

Enjoy the good in what you do and the community you've created.

Mike,

FYI, received my print today in good order (even tho the deliverer left it out in the rain, the excellent packaging saved it). Ordered 10/31 thru PayPal.

Bill Lewis

As bad as it all seems now Mike just remember that this will pass, you will get it all sorted, people will understand (especially with your honest and heartfelt apologies like this post), you will have learnt something new about the world and online business and you will have a good story to pass on to people at the end of it.

I think the people that have paid by credit card can always contact their own card companies and get them to seek redress from this Volusion company on their behalf.

Mike,
can I recommend Shopify as an online store thing in the future? They are good people.

Just wanted to add my voice to chorus of support for you Mike. Your readers are 100% behind you. Please don't stop doing what you're doing!

Having been away for a couple of days I am just catching up on TOP.

What a great set of testimonials to your integrity and to you being well liked. I'm sure you are proud and humbled by this show of support and I add mine to the list.

Personally, I would print out all the comments and mail them to Volusion.

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